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Robert Berkeley  0:06  

Hello, you're listening to Inside Jobs, the podcast where we get to meet creative leaders who work directly for brands, learn about how they got to where they did and understand what drives them. Inside Jobs is brought to you by IHAF the forum for In House Agency professionals, as well as Express KCS, the Select choice of discerning agencies for outsource production across all media. In this episode, we're joined by Brad Lund of the Campbell Soup Ccompany, famous of course, for their eponymous comestibles, but also the owner of brands you'll find in any kitchen such as capital from Cape Cod, Potato Chips, or Crisps as I prefer to call them. Brad, we're going to learn about your journey to Campbell Soup. But what's your responsibility at this iconic company?

 

Brad Lund  0:50  

I am the Director of Marketing Operations. And well, that also includes the Campbell’s Creative Studio, and the corporate archives are under my direction.

 

Robert Berkeley  1:02  

It's an interesting, interesting one to throw into the mix. 

 

Brad Lund  1:05  

Right? 

 

Robert Berkeley  1:06 

That 

 

Brad Lund  1:06  

Yeah, 

 

Robert Berkeley  1:06 

you desperately wanted the corporate archive.

 

Brad Lund    1:08  

Yes, it was something totally new to me. But it had it was a one person department. And when I was working in the internal external communications group, we used a lot of the archives for footage for images and felt that because of that, and some of the synergies that we had with, you know, the multimedia that was in the archives, and it made sense to have it in under our direction.

 

Robert Berkeley  1:35  

But yeah, lots of assets, this historic company. So there's a lot of a lot of good stuff there. I'm sure you can draw upon.

 

Brad Lund    1:39  

Yeah, we'll be 150 years old next year. So we're coming up on that anniversary. And yeah, it's been very interesting just to understand fully what goes into a true corporate archives. But you know, the bright and shiny things that we all see are the, the, you know, the Andy Warhol memorabilia, and all that type of stuff. So it's, it is fun to be part of that group.

 

Robert Berkeley  2:06  

For some people that archive those sort of archives are a business in its own right, but you're focused on on promotion for Campbell Soup Company, as a whole. 

 

Brad Lund   2:16  

Yeah. And, and she'll also get into looking at trends. So you know, back in the 80’s, did we try a product with a certain twist? And why did it fail? And so that type of real intelligence comes in to help future products?

 

Robert Berkeley  2:33  

That's useful. Yeah, that's interesting. I hadn't thought about that. For the archive. Normally, people think of the archive is something you can monetize, but not something you'd necessarily go back and learn from. Right? Yep. Brad, let's, let's leap into our Wayback Machine, I'm gonna have to invent a sound effect for the Wayback Machine. I'm sure there is one somewhere. But let's get to how you got to where you are. So take us way back, Brad, where you actually from originally,

 

Brad Lund   2:56  

so I was born in Evanston, Illinois. So I'm a Midwestern Midwestern guy, and moved out east in 2,000. So like I said, grew up on the North West suburbs of Chicago. I attended high school at Loyola Academy in Wilmette, Illinois. So claim to fame as Bill Murray also went there.

 

Robert Berkeley  3:19  

That's a good claim to fame. 

 

Brad Lund   3:19  

Yeah, yeah. I remember taking a communications class and working in Super 8 film, which was still around, but kind of ending its time. But I remember shooting some class projects and actually cutting in physically pasting the film together. So I remember enjoying that. But it didn't seem like that was a major calling. But you know, I think we ask our kids now, in high school, what they want to do when they grow up, and they seem to have ideas. I mean, I had no idea back then. But I went to John Carroll University in Cleveland, Ohio, and see new year, there was a class titled corporate television, and I thought that was the perfect mix of what I wanted to do, which was the business side of it, but also the production side. 

 

Robert Berkeley  4:13  

Did you have any concept in your mind? And this is in the late mid late 80’s? was known? Yes. Yeah. Did you have any concept of what business television was? 

 

Brad Lund   4:20  

No, but like I said, When I saw it, I said, that seems to really hit where I've been thinking about, I knew or at least I had heard that if you wanted to do production. You know, if you wanted to be a camera, man, that's all you could do, and you couldn't touch anything else. And I knew that's not where I wanted to go. But based on my education up to that point, I knew I wanted to be in business. I knew I had an appreciation for you know, profit and loss and making a successful business. And so when I saw the two words married together of corporate television, I said that's you know, that really seemed to hit a chord.

 

Robert Berkeley  4:52  

So tell me about Chicago that when you when you sprung from university and you're you're you're fresh faced and excited by the idea of working in business with television, and what opportunities came your way? And how did you get them,

 

Brad Lund   5:04  

I had applied to a production position at a private psychiatric hospital in the marketing group, so because they were private, they had to do their own marketing. So that was my very first job. 

 

Robert Berkeley  5:18  

Do you remember the very first thing you were set to do when you went there? 

 

Brad Lund    5:24  

Yeah, so the, so we would set up equipment. So we both did in this, and this kind of, you know, is a is a good example of, I guess, my career. So we did creative things. But then we also had to make money. And so that taught me so we would set up camera equipment, this is back in the VHS days, you would set up equipment in a group room, set it up, start recording it, leave, and then you know, the next hour, you come back, and then you collect the insurance slips from each patient. And that's how we charge for our services. So even though it was a very, you know, basic service that we did, it's still reinforced, you have to make money, or it's a very good idea to make money while you're providing some creative services that are hard to quantify the benefits of right away

 

Robert Berkeley  6:09  

short of short of being a freelance. So that was about as close to the money as you can possibly get. 

 

Brad Lund   6:13  

Yep, yeah. But I remember the the training was for the company that the one thing that stuck out in my mind was we were trained to, and this is, you know, I'm fresh out of college, is how to restrain someone if they got out of hand. So that was interesting.

 

Robert Berkeley  6:30  

Have you have you had to use that Campbell Soupcampbell soup? Or? No, but I'll bear in mind when I next see you just in case. You need to restrain me, especially if we're anywhere near a bar. Right? You might need to do that. So So take us take us then on a journey from there to you know, the following 20 years when you got to Campbell's Soup. 

 

Brad Lund    6:53  

Yep. So I've worked for in between that first job. And then Campbell Soup. I've worked for nonprofit organisations, I've worked for International Organisations. So companies that are owned by this one was a French company. So I think I've gotten a good mix of the different types of corporations that, you know, I'll run a creative group or a creative department, production department. When I was at about 2,000, I was working at Square D company that's owned by Schneider Electric out of France. And, you know, monster.com came out. And we were running a private satellite television network at Square D and started streaming. And so new technologies came into play. And that was the one time I looked at, you know, work at that next step be I didn't think that there was much more room to grow there. So looked at monster saw some open jobs, at the time had some very young children so saw a position for an interactive financial agency out here in Philadelphia. So I applied and you know, back in the internet days, people were being hired left and right. And so I came out here and was hired right on the spot, and eventually moved to Philadelphia. And so that was the jump from my corporate experience, corporate background into an agency, a small agency, startup agency, one that was purely built on Aad revenue for the pages that we were providing our services on. And eight months later that followed the.com story. So

 

Robert Berkeley  8:36  

okay, so so let me see. Now you one thing you didn't mention, but I was aware of was that in Chicago, also you were sharing a stage with some operatic greats. And so I mean, where did that fit in? And how did that come to an end as well? What were you doing there?

 

Brad Lund    8:54  

So in actually in grade school, so the I was early on? Yeah. So to go back in the Wayback Machine so. So I had a friend of mine whose parents were in the chorus of the Lyric Opera of Chicago. So that's the obviously the main mainstage. They're in downtown Chicago. And once in a while, he would be asked to be an extra. And that's, you know, if you've been doing opera, I've seen an opera. There's, you know, there's a carry as they call him. Yep, exactly. So sometimes I was a spirit carrier. There's children, they're soldiers and other non singing parts. And so since I was his friend, and they needed some extra people, I went down there with them. And so for about six years, and I probably didn't do my freshman and sophomore year in high school, it was a job so they paid you but you would go down and you were part of the opera. And so I did share the stage with Pavarotti and Domingo. And so I think I got an early appreciation for you know, the arts and and and you know, having it be right there in your face and opera is not one of the first things most kids would listen to but and you know, it wasn't, you know, my pure cup of tea, but it was definitely, you know, I learned the appreciation of, of arts and performance and getting onstage.

 

Robert Berkeley  10:11  

Wwell, having the opportunity to stand close to these people when they're in and night after night as well. Right?

 

Brad Lund   10:15  

Yep. So we got to know them pretty well. And, you know, obviously got their autographs and you know, private, you know, birthday parties for them when they were there. And so yeah, it was a great opportunity.

 

Robert Berkeley  10:24  

Well, that sounds like a nice diversion. But anyway, so we're back to, we're back to Philly now. And you're moving across to the agency side, turning your back on corporate at that time, this is 2000 or so isn't it? Or a little later? 2000? YeahYes, yeah.

 

Brad Lund    10:37  

Yeah, So my, my first agency was 2001.

 

Robert Berkeley  10:39  

And so what we what was the difference that you found there.,

 

Brad Lund    10:42  

I was with two different agencies before I came back to corporate so one of them was a financial streaming audio streaming service. So before the internet, he really had to be an analyst and have a specific phone number to be to be able to call into quarterly conference calls. So this service allowed anyone to just click on a link and then hear the quarterly conference calls for companies. That was all pure, ad based revenue. And then the second company was email marketing, digital email marketing for a lot of the major agencies and brands. And actually, in both of those agencies, I was managing production. The the technical side versus the creative side. Yeah,

 

Robert Berkeley  11:27  

Yeah, you're not using the word creative very much. So I'm gonna I'm quite curious as to how that started to come in, but maybe I'll explain.

 

Brad Lund    11:33  

Right, so the majority of my background and I guess the majority of my experience in you know, in the early days was production. So it was hands on camera producing, writing, shootings, obviously, there's inherent creative elements to that. So I have been an editor but a lot of it was heavy production. And so the agencies even though there was production going on there was there was creative going on. I was really in charge of the the Java the the back end systems again, the .com era you know, kind of allowed opportunities for people to do anything and everything. So I learned a tonne about technology and servers and databases. But then once those again started, you know, withering away then I knew I should probably get back into corporate and so Uunisys is located in Bbluebell, Pennsylvania, so not too far from where I was at. And so I jumped back into my traditional job of managing a very large international department. But again, it was heavy into internal external communication production.

 

Robert Berkeley  12:40  

Alright, well, they just sent through through Uunisys, and an update. I'm interested in how the job came about at Campbell Soup.

 

Brad Lund   12:46  

Yep. So I worked at Uunisys, for it was about eight years. And again, it was a very traditional internal external department about 30 people. I managed a producer in London and then a team in Bangalore, India. That whole department was starting to shrink based on the business at Uunisys. And so I knew that on the East Coast, pharma was very prevalent, and a lot of pharma companies are out here. So I took a job. It was about a two hour drive each way to Medco, which is a pharmacy benefit manager who you know, provides the medication for 90 day prescriptions. And so that, again, traditional production, but we did a lot of external meetings, worked with a lot of famous people, but they then were bought out by Express Scripts. And so when the buyout was happening, and we had pretty good heads up, I sent a an email to an internal networking group that I have and just said, Hey, here's what's coming up in my, my future. And if anyone knew of a position, let me know. And so a couple months later, one of the one of my connections and someone I knew pretty well had the position that I currently have at Campbell's and said that he was going to be moving to Florida for another job, and wanted to know if I wanted to put my name in the ring to interview and so that's how that happened. And so I started at Campbell's in that internal external communications group. So it was a very, very small group. And 

 

Robert Berkeley  14:37

Sso you kind of hadn't done a lot of creativity, you certainly weren't created by training by the sound of it, but you'd obviously work with creatives, but something happened. 

 

Brad Lund  14:46  

Right? So two things happen. One is that we saw there were there was another person in the company, who was in charge of production oversight for all of the marketing for all the advertising and all the brands. And then there was myself who was in charge of all the internal external production and so there were rehat in my, in my position, we hire a lot of freelancers to come in and do the work, a lot of photography, a lot of video. And so there was an instance or two where this other counterpart, who was managing all of the brand work came to us and said, there was one example where the agency of record had taken a picture of a VA bottle, and it wasn't, you know, those can be a little difficult because they're very shiny and reflective. And so they needed us to reshoot a bottle of VA, And ASAP to meet, you know, some fire drill. And once we did it, we started comparing, you know, the process, the quality, and then the cost. And the my counterpart, you know, was pretty amazed that what we could do and how cheap and how quick, we could do it. So that's started. And again, this is, you know,

 

Robert Berkeley  15:55  

so Was this an intent? Or did you think at the time how I can show them what we can do? Or was it just a process that you went through? And now these these things are realised on their own accord? Or did you help them get realised?

 

Brad Lund  16:05  

Yeah, we definitely knew that this was going on, and we knew that we could do you know, we could do this, because quality on those types of productions, but we didn't have a lot of, you know, knowledge and background in that area. So, you know, traditionally, a lot of our advertising was on TV, but now, you know, if you go back, you know, five, six years, a lot of it was social media. So we knew that the bar was a little bit lower on the amount of work that goes into creating some of these activations some of these marketing assets. And so we knew that we could start winning and helping out with some of those productions. And so by having them come to us in a very quick, you know, need and seeing the six the success that was very, very educational versions, 

 

Robert Berkeley  17:01  

And then being who marketing? 

 

Brad Lund  16:56

Yes, the marketers and this other marketing production oversight person.

 

Robert Berkeley  17:01  

And that they were using, sorry, they were using an AOReo R to do this an agency of record to do they fall for this shooting? Okay. Yeah, no surprises, it costs a lot of money. Okay,

 

Brad Lund  17:10  

Rright. And so there was another smaller agency that was doing social media production work. And long story short, the the brand, who we work with in Camden, most of our people are in Camden, we also have offices of Pepperidge Farm in Connecticut. And then now North Carolina with Snyder’s-Lance lands. So we work in the same building with most of our clients, most of our marketers, they came to us, they were working with a small agency on social media work and said that they were working on multiple brands, so their response and broth there spaghettios, those are very different brands. And the long story short, is that the brand was not happy with all of the assets that were being created. Because they weren't on brand. They weren't, you know, meeting the specs that they wanted. And they asked us to hire a freelancer to see if we could do it in house. So after a year, we did five times the content for the same price. And the assets were much more on brand than they were getting in the past. So these things started to come up. And we started,

 

Robert Berkeley  18:12  

And by the way, did you What did you do to ensure that people could see this because it's one thing to save the money. But you know, you you're you really need people to to quickly understand what's going on? How did you how did you help that?

 

Brad Lund    18:24  

Right. And so that's a great segue into the the other point I was going to bring up is that we were having this groundswell of great successes. And then the entire company went through a reorganisation, we hired a consulting firm to come in. And that consulting firm created a shared services model. In that shared services model, we were moved from the internal external communications group over to a new group that included us the production group, media, consumer affairs, and so other groups that were much more in tune in in line with the marketing, and advertising and activations group, and I believe we removed because of our successes, and what we had done more of that, that groundswell of production that we were we were accomplishing. So to your point, we were keeping our information about how much money we were saving, how much work we were doing, but it was more of a nice to have, and oh, you know, by the way we save so much, are we, you know, we're able to provide assets much quicker to much more formalised when we removed into that new group in the Shared Services model.

 

Robert Berkeley  19:38  

So were you were you preparing kind of monthly reports for people upstream or in marketing, or you presumably were a cost centre, so they would be paying your bills as much as they'd pay in a was bills. All right. Was it kind of invisible to them? No, it

 

Brad Lund   19:51  

No,was we work on a partial chargeback system. So I don't have to charge back for my overhead but I have to charge per project. And this kind of goes back to one of my first jobs where I've always had that sense of showing our value. I, we, my first jobs a consultant came in at the last minute and said, I'm going to do a back of the envelope assessment of your group over the weekend, I need this this this. And, you know, it was a young person that had just come out of college, and they were trying to compare the value of what we were doing based on cost per minute of production. And I knew that I could shoot a two second arrow five second video that cost a million dollars, or I could shoot a video of an hour, that would cost me 10 bucks as I do, I just knew that that was not, you know, the right way to go about it. So just I learned from the beginning that you really have to be your own champion, you have to keep your numbers you have, you know, we know what we're doing, we know the value, and we're the ones that have to keep track of.

 

Robert Berkeley  20:58  

So, so you'd put an invoice into marketing, where you're charging at your rates, would you put on that invoice? What they would have paid elsewhere? Or did you give them a separate report? Or did you insist on on monthly review meetings where you have the opportunity to show the savings. So I'm really curious as to how you not only conveyed this, but really, really kind of got people's attention that they could save a lot of money by moving things your way, obviously, you've now got this shared service, but still you need marketing to come to you, I presume they weren't mandated to use you at this point. Even were they?

 

Brad Lund    21:27  

not at that point. So that came in the past year or two were based on the successes of the Shared Services model. We created scorecards and we created goals of savings. So that and the story really is that we save the brand's production money and that money then goes back to them to create more assets. So... right,

 

Robert Berkeley  21:51  

Right, you know, champion Judo in the in the hierarchy, then,

 

Brad Lund   21:54  

Yes yeah, so are my VP, my bosses, Marcy rabl. And she is the lead for the Media Group. So that's who we moved over to when we started our new organisation under the Shared Services model. And so she had the vision and again, it was really a lift and shift, if you will, of our group over into this new group. For her, her leadership and guidance and so I think the success of what we can do and what we can bring to the table allowed us that success, but then she really set up the scorecards for the company and for our groups to, to show that change and show that value. So, you know, to your past question, it was invoices that we would send to the marketing and it's not easy for them always to use inside services versus an agency. So that's, you know, decouple Why

 

Robert Berkeley  22:48  

Why is it not easy for them?

 

Brad Lund    22:49  

I think it's some marketers or some, I think some people are used to just having everything done for them by the agency. The agency has many people, they take care of a lot of you know, things, they make a lot of decisions. And, you know, they both have an had the creative responsibilities, but then also then dovetail that into production. So when you attempt to take some of that production and move it inside, you have a lot of sensitivities about making sure that that creative is created as well, if not better than what the agency was going to do. And so for a marketer, that's just more work for them and more things for them to worry about. You know, saving money to them is not everything, obviously, it's not us, to us, quality is the most important thing. And if we can find a more efficient, and or a more effective way or a quicker way to bring that content to life, that's what we really hang our hat on for the value that we bring.

 

Robert Berkeley  23:53  

Okay, so you inherited tea when you came in in 2012. And then you were amalgamated with others, and you inherited a wider team? What did you start with? And how have you moulded that to where we're at today?

 

Brad Lund   24:07  

Yeah, we started with about three or four full time staff and heavy heavy freelance contractors to support the rest of the production. And then we also have preferred vendors that we worked with to support, you know, like our websites, banner ads, email production. And so over the past three years, we've made some hires, we've brought more of those contractors in full time. And we always still have a mix of full time and freelance. And, you know, this is has really been our first year we've wrapped up our first fiscal year of decoupling production. And we're going into our second now. And so we're gaining knowledge about budgets, we're gaining knowledge about when productions happen, we're, you know, just gaining knowledge about the brands and so yeah, we're growing steadily but careful to you know, make sure that we grow with the business.

 

Robert Berkeley  25:05  

Yeah. So So where are you now in size.

 

Brad Lund   25:08  

So we have about eight full time people. And we then we have, you know, a couple contractors that are here almost every day. And then we have our flex staff. So we have a flow to the work model where, you know, we'll staff up as the work comes in. And which is usually during the summer, you know, very busy production summer for a lot of TV commercials. And then it, you know, kind of winds down for a few months and then goes back up.

 

Robert Berkeley  25:33  

So you mentioned TV a lot, but obviously, you're also responsible for social and digital as well, right? 

 

Brad Lund  25:40  

Yes Yeah, so we 

 

Robert Berkeley  25:41

andum, print.?

 

Brad Lund    25:42  

Yeah, we don't do a lot of print, but we do. broadcast TV, we do, obviously, online video, social media. We're doing e commerce, websites, banner ads, emails, we do radio spots. So we do you know, quite a bit. But don't do a tonne of print.

 

Robert Berkeley  26:01  

You mentioned decouples. So I presume that means you do still work with one or more agencies for creative input and strategic planning? Or is that coming from within your group as well now

 

Brad Lund   26:11  

as well now, Sso the majority of the work that we do is with our agency of records. So we have a number of agencies that we work with for again, all of our brands including Pepperidge Farm and Snyder’s- Lancelands. So they still are responsible for coming up with the strategy, the big idea, the creative assets that are going to be produced. When we're at the point where we're about to plan for production, that's where my group is responsible for deciding is this going to be produced fully by the agency? Is it going to be fully produced by my team and our contractors and freelancers and vendors? Or is there going to be a mix? And then at that point, we oversee every production in my group, but the coupling decision happens at that point.

 

Robert Berkeley  27:03  

Right, I see. Okay, and you you're dealing with a marketing hub must be quite a large marketing department at Campbell Soup. Yeah.

 

Brad Lund   27:10  

How many people you interfacing with?  

 

Brad Lund  27:17

how Aabout 30 or 40 different people in our direct interfaces?

 

Robert Berkeley  27:17  

Okay, and so, have you got a team of account managers who I mean, you're talking, you're relatively small, you've got eight for a time people. How many of those do interface directly with with right now

 

Brad Lund  27:28  

 So right now we have one head of production, Suzanne Landau, who came from one of our agencies. So she's been hired in the last eight months. And so her responsibility is really being that subject matter expert for our brands. And then we have contractors that fill in, you know, for other brands that she cannot manage. So I think that's our future growth is having those subject matter experts as full time employees, that act as those account reps act as those subject matter experts per the brand, work with them from as early as we can, in production. And I mean, you know, working with and sitting in, in the meetings with the agencies, when they're discussing the big ideas when they're discussing, you know, the strategy for the brands overseeing the entire lifecycle of that activation. So that's where we're moving to now is that subject matter expert, and then the production teams will work under those groups.

 

Robert Berkeley  28:26  

That seems to be a direction of travel here. How would you characterise that, I

 

Brad Lund   28:29  

 I mean, we're definitely learning quite a bit as we are in our decoupling mode, and it's nothing, you know, new to the industry. So, you know, if you read at agents, it's in almost every publication of, you know, one agency or another, that's having to work with decoupling or other brands that are decoupling from their agencies. And so, yeah, you know, we're realising that we're not going to be decoupling everything, there are certain productions that will always stay with the agency, and there's ones that we can bring in house and add value to and again, our, you know, our three main drivers are really cost, quality and speed with quality being, you know, the lead. So, you know, as, as the company ebbs and flows and changes, and we're selling some of our, some of our brands, we have to make sure that we're right sized for the current company, and then the future growth as where we go. So, you know, we're really focusing on getting our organisation, streamlined and as professional as we can be, as we are, you know, we always say that we feel like we're changing the tires on the car as it's moving. I think that's always gonna happen, no matter what organisation you're with, and at what time because the the media and the industry changes so much, that we're constantly tweaking and adjusting as we're moving forward.

 

Robert Berkeley  29:51  

So how do you make sure that you're aware of what these changes are? That's coming up, Brad, it's very dynamic, not just at your business, but generally so how do you make sure your Part of the decision making crises.

 

Brad Lund   30:01   

very dynamic, not just at your business, but generally so how do you make sure your Part of the decision making thing really is, you know, knowing your industry, knowing what your capabilities are identifying those areas in the company that you can add value and then really going for it.

 

Robert Berkeley  30:11  

How are you doing that, though? Brad, how do you get to do that? Because you're running it, right?

 

Brad Lund    30:16  

It's we hear about and so one instance one area is shopper marketing. So that's an area that was not identified for us to help with. But there are production elements in shopper marketing and consumer promotions, which are, you know, the, the Yep, in store. And so those are being done by different groups. And so if we can look at those sides of the business and see and explain that, hey, we can do this piece of it, we can't do that whole production. But if we take the production out of this process that you're doing with a vendor, or if we can help them be more efficient, here's some money that we can save. And so when companies are really tightening their belts, that's a good opportunity. You know, some people get nervous, but that's a good opportunity for groups like us that can step in, add more value, save more money, and then put the save $2 towards more, you know, marketing and more activations.

 

Robert Berkeley  31:14  

Absolutely, which is what I know you want so Okay, so things are things are obviously developing nicely at Campbell Soupcampbell soup, you are able to look at opportunities to save them more money, and presumably time as well, you didn't mention that. But I presume part of this is time, isn't it time to market time pre execution?

 

Brad Lund  31:31  

Yep. So there is examples of you know, that we've saved five days here six days, there were agencies that we've worked with, in the past have quoted, you know, if it's a simple re edit of a TV commercial, for instance, that there's no new content, we've been able to save, you know, at least a week passed agency that said, Hey, we, you know, we'll, we'll need $10,000. And we'll need to have at least a week to do this. We were able to do it in one day, and did it for $100 of chargeback funds. And so those success stories, obviousalbeit small, are very important. And, you know, that's a lot of money that's saved. But yeah, we're we're able to be much quicker in those productions.

 

Robert Berkeley  32:14  

And a wider sense, there's also this this sort of thing going on, not just a Campbell Soupcampbell soup, but in a lot of other companies, it's really chipping away at the confidence that marketers have in in traditional agencies as well, they're not doing themselves any favours. And certainly I'm seeing this with with my company providing these production services to to in house agencies, that that, you know, when they compare the way they engage with us, and the way that they kind of answers they hear from traditional agencies, they just feel that well, why have we been spending all this money with you guys all these years? You know, because clearly we didn't, we never needed to, and then it doesn't leave them with a good feeling about the traditional agencies when they do still have

 

Brad Lund  32:53  

about I think that we play is that when we decoupled a production from our advertising agency, we don't disengage the agency from the production. So we play and still have them make sure that they're involved. They're just not the final decision maker on production assets and production elements. And so that's where, you know, the agency is still able to be involved, they're still able to ensure that the creative is brought to life as they saw it when they pitched it. But we're able to manage the production process and and make sure that it's being done as efficient as possible with the highest quality. So it's a balancing act.

 

Robert Berkeley  33:39  

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay, so I guess that's probably a wrap. It's been a it's been an interesting talk. Thank you very much, Brad. And it's been a varied career both outside and inside the the agency world. And clearly, you're forging ahead making a name for yourself at Campbell Soup. I want to thank you very much for your time. And look forward to meeting you perhaps it and IHAF have event roundtable at something, you remember, right! point. 

 

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Brad Lund   34:07

So I was just there at the last event. So looking forward to meeting you