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Robert Berkeley  0:08  

Hello and welcome to Inside JobsInside jobs, the podcast where we get to meet creative leaders find out how they got to where they are and trying to understand what drives them. Inside JobsInside jobs is brought to you by IHAF have the Iin Hhouse Aagency Fforum and Eexpress KCS content production partner to in house agencies who want to focus on their ideas, but not the production. I recorded this interview midway through a two week trip through the United States, which has taken me from the Henry Stewart Cconference in San Diego, and on up to San Francisco before I headed to the IHAF have Cconference and Aawards in Boston. In San Francisco, I met my next guest. Luckily for me, it was another in person interview, which I always love when I get the chance. KerriCarrie Martin has had the enviable role of creating an in house agency at Clorox and historic American Iinstitution. In this interview, we talk not only about her journey, but also about what she did at Clorox to get the existing teams combined into a single effective agency. What we didn't know at the time of recording was what would happen the following week. At the end of the IHAF have Cconference and Aawards carried team, the electro creative workshop would be pronounced Aagency of the Yyear, but only when we finished the recording to realise also that the word we had never mentioned, but which was implied by almost everything she did was culture. So if you're struggling to create a cohesive culture, or you just want to hear how it can be done, then listen on. So to start, I asked KerriCarrie, where she originally hails from.

 

Kerri Martin  1:47  

I am from Milwaukee, Wisconsin area. And I spent most of my years in the Midwest until 1997, and then moved to New York.

 

Robert Berkeley  1:59  

So what did your parents do?

 

Kerri Martin  2:00  

Oh, my parents. So my mom is school teacher, her whole career. And my father is in what was in sales and marketing in the hardware industry

 

Robert Berkeley  2:09  

Hardware, called Ryan did he travel a lot or

 

Kerri Martin  2:10  

travelled a lot? He I think I, I, I get my creativity from him for sure.

 

Robert Berkeley  2:17  

How did that manifest itself in him then?

 

Kerri Martin  2:18  

then? You know, he's just he's always super, super creative like are just think back like, well, for my bow. So when I got married recently, about seven years ago, feels like a Seven Year Itch. But he was really clever. He wrote for our, for his speech, he wrote a wine review of us. And you know, my, my whole debt side of my dad's family is actually incredibly creative. My grandfather, his father was in the in the trades. I remember being a kid hanging out with my grandfather in the garage. There was always some cool project. We were

 

Robert Berkeley  3:00  

building things with his hands building thing.

 

Kerri Martin  3:03  

Yeah, my dad, not so much. So he was more of like, the marketing creative side, but that whole side of my family, my aunt, my dad's sister's, an amazing chef. self taught chef. So lots of creative spirit around it. Yeah. So

 

Robert Berkeley  3:19  

Yeah. So when you were growing up, I mean, in terms of the world of marketing and advertising, do you remember anything from your childhood that really kind of stuck out or inspired you at the time?

 

Kerri Martin  3:27  

Yeah, for sure. So I think my parents would say, and tell you that I was destined for a career in advertising when they heard me singing TV commercial. When I was three years old. I remember what I know, like only with a cocktail in my hand, will I sing it early in the morning. But I do remember distinctly Wrigley spearmint gum as a little girl singing that. And I remember the little twins, and running around the house. And I think I was more intrigued with the commercials and I was the in programming actually. But I've been passionate about marketing really, ever since I really figured out it was a career option in high school. Right? I'm one of those hot very early on was very clear. This is what I wanted to do. And really then started pursuing various internships at Aad agency. Are you

 

Robert Berkeley  4:24  

Were you looking for the creative side of…. of..ofmarketing and advertising or the the management and business side?

 

Kerri Martin  4:31  

Hmm...I think I was a combination of both. To be perfectly honest. I have to be around creative people. I thrive in that energy. I'm not a very good artists. But I am a pretty good writer. And so when I went to University of Wisconsin, I pursued the advertising and marketing curriculum through the journalism school.

 

Robert Berkeley  4:54  

So you clearly We had a fairly fixed idea of where you were headed in this and did you have any kind of outside passions isthat this...

 

Kerri Martin  5:00  

So photography, I've always really been into photography. Ever since I was a little girl. I've never forget, like, asking for a Polaroid camera, like when I was six years, seven years old. And that is something that I've always pursued. And I got some really good advice. Early on, I had a career coach who said, Look, you know, everything's not going to go your way, you're always going to have a boss that might have a different idea and steer something in a different direction. So you have to have a creative passion where no one can tell you what to do. Yeah. And so I took my photography to a whole new level, went to school in New York, spent a summer, really every weekend in the summer, going to classes to get my photography skills up to, you know, a pretty decent amateur level.

 

Robert Berkeley  5:52  

Well, it's not, it's not won't be the last time that you followed us sort of a tangental fascination for a particular topic as well, because I know later on, you went to some sort of culinarycolour. Go through it in order then so warm up. So you leave college armed with some degree.,

 

Kerri Martin  6:11  

Aarmed with a degree. Yes, yay. So our marketing and advertising degree, and I leave college in a massive recession. That was 1992. I'll date myself. And I think when you're, you know, I was young, I had no idea. I mean, look, social media today will tell you those recession, you know, all over the place. But I had no idea really what I was graduating into my parents, of course, did. So, but my dream was to work at an ad agency in Chicago. So I was in Milwaukee area, work at an ad agency in Chicago on consumer packaged goods. Really, That's right. Yeah, I mean, right from the get go. And it took me 30 years to actually be doing it. But little did I know, I mean, it was a really tough go to find a job. And so I cobbled a lot of things together. Luckily, my dad gave me some really great advice. He's like, Look, hold out for the golden opportunity. You've worked really hard. You've had all these internships, you have a pretty interesting resume. Considering that you're just a college grad, I worked at the student newspaper, worked at some of the best ad agencies in Milwaukee did in the summers. He's like, just hold out for the golden opportunity. So I ended up doing sampling in grocery stores just to help pay my car payment. And actually, about nine months after graduating, got a job at Harley Davidson in the marketing department, when you talk about the golden opportunity that I was holding out for that was it. And Harley Davidson

 

Robert Berkeley  7:52  

that was from looking out for job ads, or applying blind sort of colorfulKali applications, or wha?

 

Kerri Martin  7:58  

what Wwe had one connection at Harley, my dad had his boss's wife worked at Harley. And she was able to get my resume on the VP of Marketing desk. And they were looking for a junior marketing coordinator type to help launch the Harley Davidson motor clothes line, right, which Harley had really not done a private label line up until that point. And so lazur I mean, come

 

Robert Berkeley  8:29  

1. right into that. Yeah.

 

Kerri Martin  8:32  

And you know, when you think of, I mean, Harley at the time, I mean, they were sold out for three, four or five years, Yeah, you know, so was a pretty low stress environment. But yeah, there were all of these owners who wanted gear, right, you know, whether it was leather jackets, or wedding cake toppers or t shirts, or chaps or boots, huge opportunity for Harley selling

 

Robert Berkeley  8:53  

Selling water in the desert. So yes,

 

Kerri Martin  8:54  

I was not selling water in the desert. And that was truly for me, where I feel like I got my MBA in branding, because it was really about you know, learning how to build a brand from the inside out and capitalise on the passionate advocacy of your owner. Yeah. How do you build that? Right?

 

Robert Berkeley  9:18  

You've had a history of that as well. Because how long were you at Harley again? Before you was there? 

 

Kerri Martin  09:23

About seven years? 

 

Robert Berkeley  9:24

So you did that's quite a quite a long time for a first job. Yeah,. soBut you clearly enjoyed it. Loved it. And you learned a lot you said along the way it was your MBA, but something made you move and you

 

Kerri Martin  09:36

something made you move  

 

Robert Berkeley  9:24

also you moved industries. Well, I suppose 

 

Kerri Martin  09:38

I actually went to BMW motorcycles. So it was BMW i didn't really yeah,

 

Kerri Martin  9:43  

so I I wanted to market the bikes. And they really didn't need help marketing the bikes at Harley because they were sold out. But BMW motorcycles did need help. Right marketing. very passionate on our base. Well, if

 

Robert Berkeley  9:59  

Each with you're limited experiencesParents because by this, you're still in your 20s, I would guess you'd had seven days in Harleyentirely. But you see, you saw that you could bring something into BMW, you didn't feel an imposter sitting there, you felt

 

Kerri Martin  10:09  

Look,like if you have the opportunity to get involved with and market something that you're passionate about. It is the perfect storm. I mean, really like you and I, I have, I think the success of my career has been because I have been passionate, yes, I kind of fell into the Harley job. But at the end of the day, I fell in love with it. And I became extremely passionate about it. And then I really learned that everything I did from there on out would have to be something that I was passionate about. I was working on BMW motorcycles for about three years. And one day there was a the new mini was in our lobby, and I was smitten. I could not believe my eyes, I thought, Oh, my God, this is this speaks to me in all sorts of ways. I mean, I love design. I mean, I'm very student of design, terrible designer, but I love design and appreciate it. And thought, wow. And there was some talk of whether or not BMW of North America was going to actually bring in the money. So as the debate, yeah. And I thought, well, hell, if they're gonna do this, like, I'm gonna definitely raise my hand to lead the marketing on this.

 

Robert Berkeley  11:21  

Iis it this is an interesting approach this, this, this, I relate to this, actually, there's a thing that I see that I think I want to be part of that. And then all I can think of after that is, how am I going to get to be part of that story. But you succeeded with this thing, obviously. So

 

Kerri Martin  11:36  

Tthere's something about my knowledge of this iconic brand building opportunity. And if we could do that, with the new mini in the US, this could be a huge opportunity, you

 

Robert Berkeley  11:47  

You have some kind of a or with whom you're working at BMW, anyway, generally. agency?

 

Kerri Martin  11:54  

Yeah. So we did. However, there was a very conscious decision that many would have its own culture within BMW of North America, and part of that own culture, because it really is a different brand. You know, I knew that we had to build this brand at every single touch point from what the experience is when you're waiting for your mini to be built to get to the States, all the way through what the dealership experiences like website, etc. So we had a huge opportunity in front of us to say, maybe we don't need dealers, we thought about that very, very early on. I think at the end of the day, at the end of the day, we did fall back to the dealership model. But we did it in a very innovative way. And ultimately, well, ultimately, what we did is we had you know, at the time, you know, 300- 400 BMW dealers, and all of them were somewhat interested, right, like, hey, they're business men and women. Yeah. So it's an opportunity. And some of them put together these incredible campaigns I remember, one was this giant cut out of a mini that gets delivered in this huge box. And it's every one from the dealership popping out of the classic Mini, really, we put put the creativity in their hands, because we knew that we were going to count on them down the road, right to deliver an amazing creative consumer experience

 

Robert Berkeley  13:24  

But you might learn something from them along the way, as well. But you hadn't had a lot of the other great big brands who were doing extraordinary new things. You mentioned Tesla, they weren't even around there. They weren't these mould breaking approaches to marketing your products. Yeah. But where was your I think it came from the influence

 

Kerri Martin  13:40  

I think it came from the influence is really the soul of many. I mean, it is a brand that has always been breaking category conventions, even before it came to the US. And so you know, many is a very cheeky brand. You know, it matches the cheekiness of you know, the Brits, 

 

Robert Berkeley  13:24  

but I'm not sure how to take that out. 

 

Kerri Martin  13:57

Yeah. I know you would appreciate it and identify with it. We knew we had permission to do that. And to challenge the conventions. I mean, the car challenge the conventions when it was built, you know, by Sir Alex is a bonus. And I mean, the very first minute that he designed, right, and so we're like look like this, there's some soulful opportunity here. And quite frankly, like if we're going to be competing in the marketplace where Ford can spend on the weekend in just football, you know,

 

Robert Berkeley  14:31  

and

 

Kerri Martin  14:32  

my entire budget is for the entire year. Like we have to find a different way.

 

Robert Berkeley  14:39  

Did you feel you were going to upset the powers that be at BMW along the way. Did you feel that you were risking, if not your job, certainly their their confidence in you know,

 

Kerri Martin  14:50  

No. so I'll tell you, our CEO at the time was actually a Brent. And he really actually supported us and this is where I learned really early on to build your advocacy base within

 

Robert Berkeley  15:06  

the hierarchy.

 

Kerri Martin  15:06  

hierarchy. Yeah, right. Yeah. So he had a true true passion for, for many, because you grew up in England. And so it was not hard to convince him. In fact, he's the person who greenlit bringing in the money to the US.

 

Robert Berkeley  15:23  

Right. But it was clearly successful. And I mean, you achieve the outcome. And I bet they have the spent now that you wish you'd had that. Anyway, we must, we must move on. Yeah Okay. We got to get up to the present day. Yeah. Before we run out of time. And so you did then move to VW, I did your CMOcmo, CMOcmo, wow. Okay, swag. And they came beating your door down or you went smashed their door down.

 

Kerri Martin  15:44  

So a Volkswagen I think, had been watching from afar the success of what many had done. And quite honestly, you know, we still some market share from Volkswagen. So they beat my door down.

 

Robert Berkeley  15:58  

Did you feel comfortable moving into a CMO’s chair at that point? Did you feel you knew the ropes?  You were...

 

Kerri Martin  16:03

Yeah, I learned a lot though. Yeah, it's always a huge, 

 

Robert Berkeley  16:07 

I'm trying to gauge whether it was a big step for you, though, to go to a PR thing for us, well, single line, but it became, True, but then up to that level, where you're going to have a lot of people like what you were doing on multiple lines? Yeah, I'm trying to make a holistic view on that. So that's your next learning, I suppose it was

 

Kerri Martin  16:24  

it was a huge learning, learning. I mean, it was a giant business. I mean, that, you know, we went from 80, you know, 80, dealers, many dealers, you know, to upwards of 300- 400, Volkswagen dealers.,

 

Robert Berkeley  16:38  

But its a close relationship with Europe as well, I would think. Iin terms of corporate governance, in terms of your autonomy,

 

Kerri Martin  16:44  

Yyou know, is interesting. So I went there, with the understanding that we would have quite a bit of autonomy to do what we needed to do to right size the ship, because the reality is, is that Americans love affairs with Volkswagens is a really different love affair than it is in Europe. We know it's the Fflower Ppower, Mmicrobuse, Lemonramen, all sorts of like really different iconography and love affair with Volkswagen than the US. So I think that we had tried to be too much of a global brand everything to everyone. And it certainly is a global brand. But I think Volkswagen always want it wanthen it's at its best always also had a little bit of you know, cheekiness about it as well.

 

Robert Berkeley  17:30  

How long were you there? Two years, two years? Yeah. And did you enjoy your time? Yes,

 

Kerri Martin  17:34  

I did. I learned a tonne when I probably grew a tonne as a leader there. But the reality is to be perfectly honest, after that tour, I was like done with cars and motorcycles. And that whole, it must have been gruelling. It is. It is gruelling, and that was when it was time for me to hop in my Mini Cooper convertible, and drive on Route 66 across country and get to California, because that's where I ultimately had always wanted to, and landed here with the vision of going to culinary school and getting myself a certification. So that's what I did. Were you

 

Robert Berkeley  18:13  

Were you were you hoping for a complete change of direction? Yeah, absolutely. So you did the Columbia school for a few years? I did for a year free. A yYearh. But then you then while you're here in the Bay, so you had to join a startup? Yeah, oOf course, you just know, you know.

 

Kerri Martin  18:29  

So I did some consulting for a electric car startup. That was actually based in Santa Monica never started up

 

Robert Berkeley  18:37  

through so many stuff.

 

Kerri Martin  18:38  

Yeah, exactly. I learned that lesson real quick. But you have to try.

 

Kerri Martin  18:43  

Yeah Yyeah, absolutely. And I've been Tesla, but but

 

Kerri Martin 18:46  

but but the reality was, is that why really moved here was to get into the wine business, right. And so, and quite honestly, I always wanted to go and move to the agency side. So I'd been client side my whole career. So that's what I did. I went to go work for BBDObbdo. Who was E&. and Jj Gallo Wwinery’sies agency of record, and I ran the account,

 

Robert Berkeley  19:08  

do you wanted to see what life was like from the other side? Did you? What were your expectations? And how did they plan out?

 

Kerri Martin  19:15  

Is everything I hoped it would be? I mean, even more surrounded by more creative people. Diversity, you know, diverse, inclusive environment. And I really, I've always thrived in that. What was your role? So I was SVP of account. And I did all the strategy work as well. Yeah.

 

Robert Berkeley  19:36  

Yeah. But what could you What did you bring from the motor industry to the water to the wine industry to Gallo as a client?

 

Kerri Martin  19:42  

Yeah. wine industry is really competitive. I mean, yeah, yeah. Hundreds of 1000s of brands and choices. You got to be differentpaid, and you have to be different and you also want to build passionate advocacy. So there's no question about what bottle they're going to pull from the shelf when they get tTo that grocery store. Yeah. And so they were very, very interested in my learnings of how iconic brands are built. So I think that's what I really brought to the table. And, you know, Stephanie Gallo, who is the CMO at E.& and J. Gallo. And I had had gotten to know each other over time, and she's like, Look, I want someone who's going to help be a help, you know, be a voice when I call up and say, What do you think about this, you know, have helped me get out of perhaps my day to day family business and have a fresher perspective and how it may consider other options. Because sometimes, you know, you're so involved in the business, it's your family business, that she really she was really open to different perspectives.

 

Robert Berkeley  20:48  

You're working, working for the agency, what was your next move to him? And after that,

 

Kerri Martin  20:52  

1. So then I went to another startup Tthe Meltmail into the mud to the mouth restaurant. Yeah. spent three years there. Okay. Learned, I've always loved hospitality, it's probably one of my, it is one of my great. So

 

Robert Berkeley  21:08  

you're, you're no longer with an agency, you're back with a brand

 

Kerri Martin  21:10  

and back with a brand. Yeah, I'm in the CMO, restaurant category. Okay.

 

Robert Berkeley  21:16  

Okay. Learn working with agencies,

 

Kerri Martin  21:17  

working with a few local agencies, and quickly realise that the restaurant business is all about operations. HMmm hmm. And I, the power of brand certainly is important. But you know, all we have to look at is some of the indiscretions in the restaurant business, you know, over the years. And know if you don't have food safety, and all of those things, you know, don't order, right. So yeah, for me, I just was like, you know, it wasn't speaking to me,

 

Robert Berkeley  21:49  

Tthese are the wildernesswitnesses. This is Kerri MartinCarrie mountain, the wilderness? Yes. Is it?

 

Kerri Martin  21:54  

Okay, I think it's okay to go into the wilderness. I tell people all the time, that the wilderness is actually a really interesting place to be, and that you can't always have it all mapped out. In fact, taking twists and turns in your career is actually a really healthy thing.

 

Robert Berkeley  22:11  

There's something that really strikes me so far, is that you're here at Clorox. And it's almost like you decided that whatever youthful age you are now, you will be at Clorox doing this job. And you've mapped out a career path that ticks all the boxes that gets it, you've got the you've got the you know, the iconic brands with with with Harley Davidson, and many, you've got the consumer goods as well, but somewhat iconic. You've got, obviously the restaurant thing was a bit of a diversion. But I'm sure you learned a lot from there, you've got the big corporate management experience of being CMO of Volkswagen. And then that brings you all up to the job you've got now. I mean, it's almost like the perfect resume. Right?

 

Kerri Martin  22:57  

And not I have any of it plans. But what's fascinating about what I'm doing today, is that what I learned about sSo, so my years of BBDObbdo., Wwhat I really learned is that I couldn't help thinking about the brand and the product and the business holistically. And as you know, agencies, oftentimes they have a certain scope that they're assigned to do. And because I had worked on the client side for sSo, so long, I couldn't help but starting to think about packaging, and sales, and all of these other touch points that we weren't scope. So think about...

 

Robert Berkeley  23:35  

So. So you'd be frustrated by the fact that you'd be looking at this very vertical bit of your clients business and unable to actually make effect on the others, which which you could so easily have done. So that would have been frustrating. Yeah.

 

Kerri Martin  23:48  

Yeah. Sso I just said, you know, what, it's time for me to get back to client side. But I didn't want to go into a traditional marketing role. And so being in house now that the call I mean, it's it's perfect for

 

Robert Berkeley  24:03  

Ddid you think you were coming into an in house agency or wasn't even even defined like that?

 

Kerri Martin  24:07  

It really wasn't even defined like that. It was defined as Creative Services, and Clorox digital labs.

 

Robert Berkeley  24:14  

So you were taught, were you invited to come in with a view to turning that into a creative in house agency? That's right. So you came into an environment that worked with external agencies already, but had these sort of nascent divisions within so what what was it you were asked to do?

 

Kerri Martin  24:32  

Yeah, so the the vision from our CMOcmo, Eric Reynolds at the time, was to create a integrated design and content machine. And I said to him, what does that look like to you? And he said, You figure that out. What was this? What

 

Robert Berkeley  24:489  

What was this? What did he want it for?

 

Kerri Martin  24:51  

He saw the incredible value and need of more and more content that was going to be needed in the marketplace. And it needed to be awesome content. It's not just stuff to put out there. And what year was this? So 2017? Okay, just over 2017. So

 

Robert Berkeley  25:11  

So, it was pretty getting pretty evident that you were having to send out 9000 messages a year, not just 90. Yeah, that's right. So you already, they already knew that the guys at Clorox already knew that you were brought in to do it. So here we go. As I mentioned before, your entire career seems to point to this, right? I mean, seriously, if you step back and just go, Okay, so if I want to do create an in house agency at a company like Clorox Ffortune 500, highly successful 100 year old business growing, then I need to have done all these things since the 1990s. And here you are. So you walk in and you've got a Creative Services, which is really packaging, really. And you've got this digital division, that's presumably working somewhat tactically at the time as well, tactically technically, I would say, yeah. So So two years ago, and I've just walked into your office an hour ago, and I have seen this is clearly not two separate and distinct departments. This is this is a, you know, this is a whole. So what did you tackle first? And what were the challenges? And how quickly? Did you really manage to affect change here?

 

Kerri Martin  26:10  

Yeah. So first things first, was we needed an identity? So we had to stop talking about the different sideslos, the Creative Services side and the cloud?

 

Robert Berkeley  26:20  

Why did you need an identity? Who would who would it benefit?

 

Kerri Martin  26:23  

Tthe team, the team wanted an identity. And they had been talking about it for years, and never really took any action. And so it also was Eric Reynolds, our cmo at the time. So I really think you know, you guys need to create an identity. And so we dug in. And that's one of the very first things that we did, because we had a lot of reorganisation to do by creating an identity and creating a vision for this team. Because there was a lot of change coming down the road. And if we could have a vision and an identity to hold us together, well, that change was happening, that was incredibly important for us. So we got a group together, once we decided, so we had to look back on our history, I really do believe that great names and brands somehow have a hook to their past. And that is no different for us. So when the clocks company actually was first founded, it was called the Eelectro Aalkaline company. And we loved the name, word electro, there was something really powerful about it. And so, so very, very early on, we said, okay, we there's something in this electro word, but then we had to really start to think about

 

Robert Berkeley  27:45  

and let me stop you that way. You keep saying, Wayit, so you had these people did you have the way you described it? It sounds like there was a handful of creatives with a great deal of production operations going on in terms of digital and packaging. So when you're saying Way,where are you getting together with the creatives in the team and brainstorming this and say, we're going to need this, and this is why we need it. And it literally is a creative, collective creative process that you're you're you're starting off from the get go? Yeah,

 

Kerri Martin  28:11  

yeah. Yeah. So day one. My Declaration was, look, I want this to be a place where you inspire to do the best work of your career. and easy to say easy to say. And, and and I said, and I'm not defining that myself, like, this is something that we need to define together. What does that what does that culture look like? What does that environment look like? What do we believe in? So as we were looking at our re identity, rebranding ourselves, because we also needed a fresh start, you know, we needed to create signals of sort of reimagination within the company, because they had gotten to know us in a certain way. And we were changing our ways. Yes. And so one of the ways, you know, we said we wanted to change is that we wanted to be order makers versus order takers, you know, that means we have to be much more upwardly integrated into the brands and what's going on, what are the issues at hand, rather than just coming to us with an assignment?

 

Robert Berkeley  29:17  

This is one of my favourite themes. Exactly. This not order takers, but order automakers,? aAbsolutely.

 

Kerri Martin  29:21  

And sometimes, yes, you still need to take the order. There's very tactical things that just need to happen. And you got to do it. But the reality is, is that what the company really needed was more order order makers, right. So, so in addition, at the same time, we were saying, Let's reimagine what our brand is. We were also doing the work internally, one on ones with all of the studio leaders and sStudios here, our brands essentially, to say, what do you want us to keep doing? We said keep it up. We said what do you want us to start doing started up

 

Robert Berkeley  30:00  

You know, and when was plumbing formerly over there? I like to buy the water cooler type thing. Did you hold kind of process?

 

Kerri Martin  30:07  

now? It was really one on ones. So it was we call it fact basing here. But it was, what do you want us? We said start it up, keep it up and change it up. Because we weren't going to be able to evolve into this design and content machine. If we didn't know what the needs were. They were honest. And their suggestions. Yeah, from their perspectives. And a lot of these folks have been around for a long time. I've seen her been around the Clorox company for a long time. So they had really good perspectives of could really offer some incredible valuable insights. So that was happening simultaneously with us creating our identity, right. But also part of that identity was saying, and this was super important as we wanted a manifesto to hold us together, right? How are we? How do we behave with one another? Really, we, you know, our vision,

 

Robert Berkeley  31:02  

Tthis is inward facing this is for the team. So it's the second major initiative you've done, which is for the team, right? The first one is to get the identity. Now you've got the manifesto, it seems very important to you that you've got to get everyone here pulling together and in the same direction, before you can affect any great change with the company as a whole. Is that right?

 

Kerri Martin  31:21  

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And we know, look, change is never easy. And there are some people that I one of the big learnings that I have had. And you know, I mean, very early when I was a kid, my parents got divorced, and it rocked my world, right. And I personally know how change can be affect you. So I was super, super cognizant of the fact that there were some people who are going to be like, Look, I'm Count me in, I'm ready to roll and tell me what I need to do. There were some people who were going to raise an eyebrow and say, let me see how this thing works out. I'm going to, you know, stay halfway optimistic and halfway puppet, the pessimistic. And then there are some, you know, a handful that really didn't want to see any change, like they didn't understand why it needed to change. And so we really needed to work on keeping the enthusiasmTheseus loose. Yeah, right. And then, you know,

 

Robert Berkeley  32:22  

Bbuilding a team of one of one of the items in your manifesto is Ccan Iif you want the one this mentality that it's not can't because, but it's Ccan Iif and that's quite way down on the list. But it's,sure  it was pretty key point. So we'll share the manifesto, actually, we'll post that as well. But I found that statement really, really jumped out at me. And yeah, you've got that's not something that people can learn necessarily. It's something you want to find inherently in people. And often you don't have time to teach them even if you couldn't teach them at a time you want what people like that. So we come to the point now where we're two years on, broadly speaking, KerriCarrie, how's it organised now?

 

Kerri Martin  33:00  

It is, it is exactly what we set out to do, which is an integrated design and content machine. So we a couple of the key things that we did. So we have an integrated leadership team. Now. So digital technology, design, creative project management account operations, we all have, we have an integrated leadership team, we made a very conscious decision that we are so our seating completely changed. I think we've made over 60 seating changes to really shake things up. But you know, it's what I'm really most proud of is one of the big things we had to do was we had to advertiseinvert eyes, our changes, right and communicate, communicate internally. So not just ourselves, right? We know what we were creating. But how do we so we did a tonne of like reboot sessions with all of the business unit.

 

Robert Berkeley  33:56  

But you did that only once you've done these inward facing bits and you'd got that sorted and organised. And you've got a beautifully decorated out here in these two floors in the main Clorox HQ. So that was all done as well before you did this. This sort of internal once.

 

Kerri Martin  34:10  

we once we once we had our internal story straight, right, we had to understand what were our core competencies? What are our core capabilities that support those competencies? What's our story? Who are we what do we believe in? Because that manifesto which we call our electro fFesto, right, is really about what we believe in and I believe that when you know what you believe, you know how to behave.

 

Robert Berkeley  34:34  

So how long before from when you walk through the door? Did you get to the point where you could empathise as you say it if we put it to to the rest of the organisation what we what it was about? I would say a good 12...12 months. Okay, yeah, took a while,

 

Kerri Martin  34:50  

took a while. So we brought everyone along on the journey that we were on and I continue to say we are still on a journey.

 

Robert Berkeley  34:58  

And you you caught them earlier, when we were when we gave you the tour, you refer to them always as your customers. Right?

 

Kerri Martin  35:05  

customers or partners? Yeah, yeah. But our customers in retail world and CPG world customers, our our retailers could reach out. Okay. I prefer to say, when we talk about the people who we work with in service of the brands, right, our Brand Partners, really try not to use the word client. Yeah, all too often because? Well, because we are, we are the Clorox company here, right? They are co workers, right? Like we have as many vested interests as anyone else in this building, and the success of these brands. Yeah. And so that is one of the great values of in house, right is that we are always going to be looking at, however, we can best serve the brands and the company. And sometimes it's really sexy stuff. And sometimes it's really basic stuff that just needs to get done. And we're happy to do any of that.

 

Robert Berkeley  36:04  

that. But it's probably been extremely successful. This change, I can feel it here within the building itself. And I know they've been redesigned some refreshes, the can refresh on the logo you said recently, but the opportunity, you have to handle everything I everything from from packaging, right the way through digital media broadcast as well. With your podcast. Yes it’s needed, Yeah. So it's To my mind, you know, I've heard I've seen full service in house agencies, but you really seem to have it, you do work with some external partners? We do. Yeah, sorry. What was that? Was the contribution that has that fit? And how do you relate to them?

 

Kerri Martin  36:37  

Yes, we work in parallel with them. Okay. So we do not lead the work that the external agencies do that is through our brand, and the marketing teams. But we are very closely partnered with them, because oftentimes, we'll be b2b, creating content that helps extend some of their big ideas, right. And so we made that was one of the big big shifts that we made is like, Look, we are upstream and all of these conversations. So we added account directors, we had never had account directors, because we were really taking the orders. And now we want to make the orders. So our account team is super closely knitted into what's going on at the lead creative agencies. And bringing all of that knowledge back right front. And it's a two way street, Crossley, they need a lot of the assets that we have here, we have a whole photo studio here, we control the digital asset management system. So we have a really, really great partnership back and forth. And there's usually at least every other weak, you know, status meetings that are happening with our lead creative agencies. They they know, we've created an incredible asset of, you know, opportunities here. So we have a photo studio that costs nothing to us. So they can really maximise their production budgets. If you know they want to use our photo, you know, the photo studio. So it is a very different relationship than it had Ban been in the past.

 

Robert Berkeley  38:09  

Well, I've got so many more questions. I honestly could ask it, because every time you add something, I think, Oh, I must ask you this. I must ask you that, but we're gonna have to wrap this up. And just just before we do, you're obviously super committed to what you're doing at Clorox. But I presume you have a personal life outside Clorox. I'm just curious. You obviously you're smelly now. And you have an interest in culinary things. Yeah. What do you do with your spare time? You must have son Okay, I have a little spare time here and there. So I'm a huge college football fan. Okay,

 

Kerri Martin  38:38  

and NFL football fan, so Wisconsin badger. So I need to ask which team Maxim badgers and Green Bay Packers Okay, so this is my my season. The fall here is like my favourite time of year for that. I'm super involved in rescue animals. So I will oftentimes go down to the local shelter and photograph dogs because they need some fun little Creative Photography in order to maybe get adopted. So I have three, three shelter dogs at my house right now. And I'm married, have a husband who enjoys a lot of the same passions as I do. I live in wine country so I still get to enjoy my passion for wine you read very much do

 

Robert Berkeley  39:27  

read I listen to music.

 

Kerri Martin  39:29  

Listen to music. And Cat very casually, though, not a huge music enthusiasts but a casual. And I have to say kind of geeky, but I read a lot of marketing books, trade pubs, any

 

Robert Berkeley  39:41  

Any recommendation.

 

Kerri Martin  39:45  

Well, I'll tell you one of my classic favourites is eating the big fish. And actually Adam Morgan, a Brit wrote that book, and it's all about challenger brand thinking Hmm. And it's it's came out years and years ago. But I think all marketers because should read that book because even if you have the budgets not to be a challenger brand, I think every brand should behave like a challenger brand.

 

Robert Berkeley  40:10  

My view about business books is I never bother reading anything that's just come out, because there's so much of it. But the ones who stand the test of time are the ones I'm prepared to take a recommendation on. So I'll check that out. Once again, eating the big fish. In fact, I have an extra copy here you can have Oh, fantastic. One final thing if people want to ask you any questions, from you know what they've heard in the podcast, they want to contact you directly. What's the best way to do that? LinkedIn, LinkedIn? Chief electric fire, okay, at the electro creative workshop, you can find me on LinkedIn. And I think we're gonna see each other next week in Boston. I'm excited about it. Yes, my first big I half event. Wow. Yeah, you won't you won't be disappointed, I can assure you.

 

Kerri Martin 40:52  

Yeah, now I've learned, I would say this, and this journey. You know, it is really interesting. You know, when I first came on board here, you kind of asked this question earlier, like, you know, what, what were you envisioning, you know, to to build here. And quite honestly, I've learned a lot from the people who've also built some amazing and how shops, and what I love about the community of in house agencies, is that everyone is so willing to share, you know, hey, how do you how do you know what project management software

 

Robert Berkeley  41:27  

that says thing? I don't know. compito.

 

Kerri Martin  41:28  

So And it's so refreshing, you know, and so I have just found it to be a really incredibly welcoming community. And there's never a shortage of people, you can pick up the phone call, you know, phone and have a have a chat about something that you're wondering about, because we're all on a journey. Like this is a never ending journey. Absolutely Like, even when we reorganised the agency that day that we sort of, you know, showed the new org charts, I said, this will change next week, we will evolve as the business needs us to evolve. Yeah. And, you know, it's been two year journey so far. And the reality is, is we have changed a tonne in those two years. So we're never going to stop, you know, never gonna stop changing. And you know, I love and I'm sure you know, the British author, Virginia Woolf. Yes. So, you know, one of the quotes that I really believe in and I've shared with the team, as I said, Look, a self that goes on changing as the self that goes on living, and I really do believe that

 

Robert Berkeley  42:30  

and I really do believe that Kerri MartinCarrie Walton, thank you so much. You're welcome this planet. So thank you once again listening to the Inside Jobsinside jobs podcast. We really need to congratulate KerriCarrie that was an extraordinary achievement. Two years it took her to take the take the agency to award winning status. I want to thank Prateek Srivastava for being my Pproducer, Emily foster at I have and the Express KCS AV team for helping me pull this podcast together. See you next time.