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Robert Berkeley 0:02
Hello and welcome to Inside Jjobs, where we get to meet creative leaders who work directly from brands, learn about how they got to where they did and understand what drives them. Inside Jjobs is brought to you by IHAFhalf the leading professional association for in house agencies and Eexpress KCS content production partner to discerning brands and agencies who want digital video and print marketing assets produced quickly and without fuss. My name is Robert Berkeley, and in this episode, we meet Todd Miller. His career has stretched from download Jenitoringgenotyping and high living Madison Avenue agencies to being a high profile example of a once committed admin who's moved to the other side. While his aim to dethrone Martin Scorsese hasn't quite yet come off. He's widely regarded, as one of the best in the business. Todd, welcome to the Iinside Jjobs podcast. Tell us fFor starters, where do you work right now?

Todd Miller 0:55
Well, first of all, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Right now I am. Well, an agency that's been over a year old. It's called Tthe Ccooler. It is the in house agency for Experian Consumer Services experience, you know, which most know about credit, but you know, it's become significantly more since I've been here. And I am the Chief Creative Director for the our agency called again, Tthe Ccooler.
So you when we met you, you did tell me a little bit about the beginning of your career, didn't

Robert Berkeley 1:19
start being a creative person. It started out being a janitor. Is that right?

Todd Miller 1:29
Well, that was my first job at an ad agency. And

Robert Berkeley 1:32
oh, okay. Well, take us back before that, then how did you get to the first job at an ad agency?

Todd Miller 1:36
Sure. Actually, I was a student at NYU, I was getting degrees. And I really had no idea what I was doing. I was getting a degree in political theory, which I did, and also religious studies and also at NYU. What do you do at NYU, but get a degree in film. And, and so I pursued that. So in the midst of pursuing this degree and making films pushing, you know, shopping carts around on sSuper aid, and trying desperately to get something happening while I was there, I happen to get a job as a Jjanitor at a to Penn Plaza, which some people might be familiar with. I also was a janitor at a was at 909 Third Avenue, which also happened to be the building for Ben and Bowles, which was one of the grand old agencies which ultimately became D’Aarcy DMB&Bde mbmb,. D’Aarcy B&Bthere, the b&b and I got a job there as a Jjanitor. And although I had no intention of advertising at that point, you know, when I saw in the midst of cleaning the vomit, the elevators and the toilet bowls.,

Robert Berkeley 2:37
Iit was that kind of agency was it?

Todd Miller 2:39
Yeah, I had, you know, a lot of cleaning off of Xerox glass, because, you know, a lot of things were being I'm guessing pressed against it, you know, back in those old Mad Men days of advertising, but looking around there, I thought this seems vaguely interesting. A bit more interesting than rReligious sStudies. Although, you know, making no judgement there.

Robert Berkeley 2:57
Yeah. Okay. All right. So it could be controversial, but it won't be so. So use all the, shall we say the untidy end of the advertising industry at its in its pomp, right.

Todd Miller 3:08
Yeah, I would say, untidy is an understatement. But but it was in a world where, you know, I'm dealing with academia and also film, which, which was very difficult, you know, at that point, especially if you're, you know, not supported by you know, families with millions of dollars, but, um, you know, I enjoy just the kind of vibe going on. And to be honest with you, I didn't go directly from that into advertising, you know, okay, the story is more impressive. I did still pursue film and so after graduating from NYU, a group of friends, we all moved out and six of us grabbed a one bedroom house in Venice Beach, two in the garage, two in the bedroom, one in the living room, and I got the dining room.

Robert Berkeley 3:51
Okay. So what did you serve up in that and what were you doing?

Todd Miller 3:54
Well, hoping to, of course, become the neck. Next, Martin Scorsese. In the meantime, I was paying on on commercials. In fact, I remember the first thing I pa it on was a Ttaco Bellbell commercial. Llong ago, and I...I got in trouble because I didn't realise back then a. And I went out to, you know, a kind of Costco kind of store and brought back cookke products. And I was immediately told, what are you crazy? This is Taco Bell, and I had to return those cookke products. So I was my job after that didn't become a real learning experience. I basically had to hold the bucket for the actor who was spitting out every bite of a burrito. So it was kind of an ignominious beginning. In my first you know, broadcast set for commercials,

Robert Berkeley 4:38
so you split it from New York to Venice Beach, obviously you fancied the weather I suppose as well as well as a potential a career in the film industry. And did Martin Scorsese eventually come knocking and ask you to help him out?

Todd Miller 4:49
I kept waiting at the door and he called me a few times to say that he'd be a little late. He didn't show up and you know, these Hollywood people. He just can't count on him.

Robert Berkeley 4:56
him. vomiting

Todd Miller 4:58
Bbut yes, I know. I... I was you know, I wasn't talking to him for a film I was hoping maybe I could clean his toilets. But yeah, ultimately what led to advertising is well a combination of things. I ended up getting a while I would like to say a day job but a night job at all this type of you know, where the old type houses wherever worked from Fort night till 430 in the morning and I did you know, the type for everything from Aaccurate to Nissan to all the days of kerning and creating tired you

Robert Berkeley 5:30
Did you know, about type and kerning and typographic but that point, I guess they gave you a course at the university I suppose.

Todd Miller 5:36
Well, No...no,now now I really in film, that's not something we touch. I've never gone to a portfolio school I've never gone to a design school. I mean, the art school I guess you'd say would have been NYU film school. And and then kind of started out as a proofreader. And and as time went on, kind of ultimately became a supervisor. So what that did really was, you know, it led me to some degree build relationships in the industry, but I was still thinking about film, I was directing some very, very, very low budget, music videos. And and but I was learning the Macintosh and I, which was just starting that and I was learning you know, about type and design,

Robert Berkeley 6:15
some music videos, just the the emergence of MTV when when music video budgets kind of exploded, and everyone was travelling around the world on yachts to shoot their single and stuff, is that that era was huge. It was this just before that,

Todd Miller 6:28
Iis that time eExactly. However, I was not part of that team. I was the part who was on a show, which was called the hum,

Robert Berkeley 6:36
what was it called?

Todd Miller 6:37
It was a late night show, and it was all kind of weird, avant garde, you know, back then it was bands, like, you know, the replacements and R.E.M and Tthe Ddel Ffuegos and Tthe Johnsons, and it was, it was a midnight show and, you know, of the videos cable or? Yeah, it was on MTV. It was actually on MTV, it was just a night show they had which was their alternative show, which could be interpreted as you know, Aavant Ggarde Ccutting Eedge and also could be interpreted as you know, a budget of $320

Robert Berkeley 7:06
stuff that no one wants to see. Yeah,

Todd Miller 7:08
right. Whereas I think duringDuran at that time was probably spending, you know, 2 million a spot.

Robert Berkeley 7:12
So the music, the music business itself didn't particularly appeal to you or you you were still kind of holding a flame for film. What happened after this?

Todd Miller 7:21
Well, it did appeal to me quite a bit. I actually come from a family of musicians. My dad was a bandleader of people remember the Borscht Belt to the Catskills, my brother was a, you know, I would say a, I wouldn't say famous, but had a couple albums out and was, you know, high in the college music journey scores. And I had a few bands in college as well as high school where I used to sing and write music, but you know, so it was a combination of all those things, when I moved out here, so I did continue to play music with a few people and also seek film and, and so it was basically just a group of people that from NYU, he met others who are really creative, and at that, oddly enough, I feel I had more disposable income then but we just had a great time living at the beach and PA ng and, you know,

Robert Berkeley 8:10
So no particular a killer plan, it was just this kind of idea that you wanted to do something in the creative arts, but no particular kind of direction.

Todd Miller 8:17
Yeah, I have these someum, degrees from, you know, a notable University, which I really wasn't taking much advantage of, but

Robert Berkeley 8:23
But it was a calling card, I guess wasn't

Todd Miller 8:25
just some degree, oddly enough, other than I would say, if you're going to film it coming from NYU might get you a conversation, but really not so much in the other stuff as it is an advertising ultimately, people just care about your portfolio and your real same in, in film. But, but yeah, I mean, I remember sitting around at about, you know, 21-22 and thinking, Okay, if I don't have anything figured out by 27 on, I'll just go to law school. And so that that that time was ticking, so I had to figure something was a

Robert Berkeley 8:59
bullet you needed to dodge really wasn't

Todd Miller 9:01
Yes, it was a.... Yes, it was a.

Robert Berkeley 9:05
slow moving one. But... bBut you know, so it's interesting, we actually have a number of listeners to the podcast, who are people starting out on their career? And, you know, I'm sure a lot of them do worry about whether they went to a name, university or college, but what you seem to be saying that, that doesn't really count in this industry so much as the last job you did, and the work that you have to show, right.

Todd Miller 9:26
Yeah, I'm sure it helps. Like, you know, I later in the story, you know, I taught at Art Centre for a while, but, I mean, obviously, if you I think the best thing about going to a portfolio centre or Miami Ad School or an Art Centre or an SBA are, orare the people in a position who you can make connections with, I think it is helpful to keep in touch with you know, people from wherever you went to school, and of course, the portfolios I didn't have a portfolio at this point. I had nothing like that. So you know, I will admittedly my path is unusual. Well,

Robert Berkeley 10:00
what would you say was the norm but in another way, and how did you deviate from that?

Todd Miller 10:04
I would say the norm is going to an Art Centre and SBA or a portfolio centre and building a book. Or if you're a writer, you know, writing some stuff and putting together a portfolio Ii didn't Ii, to be completely honest, wasn't really thinking of advertising. And I always enjoyed commercials much like I enjoyed music videos. And this is an era where you know, music videos, were kind of a new thing, but the way I really got into advertising and I only realised later how lucky I was and I still feel lucky and fortunate for you know, and thankful for this happening is there was a, a contest in spy magazine for an Absolut Vodka ad, and it was back in the days where they did you know, absolute Warhol, Aabsolute, you know, they kind of absent herring, and they had a contest in in the magazine and I remember sitting on and so at this point, I have a reel of a few rock videos. That's it, no commercials, honestly, nothing except the fact that I had, you know, been working at this type shop and being in touch with agencies. So anyway, what happened was I did you know, an ad for absolute in this magazine and sent it in, didn't think much of it. Actually, I did it with black spray paint and white out because I didn't even have the proper, the proper tools, you know, supplies to do this. And about three months later, a message was left for me, I still remember this. This is living in a house that now has not only the six I told you, but there's a new guy from Wisconsin who has his van plugged in. So we have seven people sharing the sharing the phone. And, and there was a message, you know, piece of paper saying you got a call from something called Ccarillon Iimporters. They wanted to talk to you about Aabsolute. And I thought, wow, I want a T shirt or something. How nice. When I finally got on the phone, evidently, I won the grand prize, my ad was chosen. And it ended up there 1000s, three or 4000 entries. And they flew me out to New York to a party at the end, which incidentally, I'm from New York originally, but I got flown back to New York. So it was kind of a free way to see my family as well. But at the PuckUC Bbuilding, and you know, there were some stories about that, and the trades. And based on that I managed to, you know, get some meetings with the agencies, as well as some that you know, and I could walk around with my experience of being a typographer

Robert Berkeley 12:23
and award winning designer and prototype ographers. That point,

Todd Miller 12:27
Rright and.

Robert Berkeley 12:28
In How old are you then. How old you are this oneare your

Todd Miller 12:30
Probablyearly 20s? Kind of mid 20s? Actually, yeah. And then. And so I I remember the places that were talking to ultimately was TBWA in New York, and RPA in Santa Monica Rubein n pastor Postaer and Associates. Now I believe it's called RPA. And after some conversation, and also knowing the studio head from, you know, being a typographer, I ended up starting at RPA.

Robert Berkeley 12:58
Wow.

Robert Berkeley 12:589
Wow. So it's funny, I, someone I interviewed recently for this podcast, when I asked her what inspired her to get into advertising. She said, it's very specifically it was the Absolut Vodka ads, that she made her realise that you could combine art with with commerce. And so it could well have been your very your very ad but she that she saw.,

Todd Miller 13:21
Yyeah, I remember going to there and the men who owned Carolina even came to me and said, Listen, I didn't think you should win, but the agency which was TBWA at that point, the agency they'd seem to think it was hysterical that he even said I don't even get it and it was a blank page and and it was this is this is a college intellectual who's doing an ad so you know, remember a degree in political theory and religious studies and the ad was completely black and white type it just read Aabsolute Sartre, as in jumper so I was you know, being

Robert Berkeley 13:52
it was run. Yeah, it was run that it was run and even when it

Todd Miller 13:53
that it was run and even when it ran in spy magazine, and actually a little picture of me shaking hands with with with the head of Ccarillon it my first day at RPA was the Northridge earthquake. It was you know, I fortunately I hadn't unpacked yet because the place where I lived was pretty well decimated and, you know, nothing really got destroyed. But I remember I was desperate to go to my first day of work and I couldn't get there. The electricity was out. I finally got there. And thenum, and the security guard at the front of RPA in Santa Monica said go home and I didn't come in for two weeks. But oddly enough, I got paid. So I was like, This is pretty good gain. Good. Sounds good. Yeah.

Robert Berkeley 14:31
Sounds good. Yeah. So you say you you started there as an Aart Ddirector. All right.

Todd Miller 14:35
Yeah, I started there as well. It is kind of an interesting story just because you know, Larry Postaerpastor who I'm still in touch with and I would say is, you know, if not the certainly one of the most important mentors of my career. I'm started out as kind of a designer and to be honest with you, I am I would not hire me as a designer. I you know, more interested in ideas and what you know, explaining to people living in these circumstances what the difference between art director and designer I was clearly more of an art director. However, my first gig was as a designer. What's the difference?

Robert Berkeley 15:045
What's the difference? What's the difference with an art director andthan a designer?

Todd Miller 15:08
Well, I would say a designer, I don't want to offend anyone, I'm just explaining it. You know, one way I'm sure there are many other definitions. But a designer is very concerned with presenting the information with the architecture and also you know, having the flow of the all these things that are very important. But it starts with how I am going to communicate what I believe was started perhaps by an art director. Now to me, an art director doesn't start with the design, doesn't start with a look, doesn't start with a colour palette, doesn't start with fonts., Aan art director starts with none of that. Aan art director starts with an idea and peered, prepared withpreparedpaired with their copywriter., Tthe first thing that they need to do before they think about anything else, obviously, the brief beyond strategy is to look out the window and find that idea. Now, to me the definition of a good idea which has changed a bit, which has evolved how important that was back then, in an era where really assignments were television, outdoor boards, radio and print. But if you start with an idea, you know, I'm just trying to think of the best way to say this, my team always, you know, kind of, you know, sick of me saying, but before you present an idea, don't start off with the TV spot. Don't start off with an artboard. Start with an idea. And then if it's a good idea, it can be used as a sSuperbowl spot, it can be used as a garbage can wrap, it became used as a banner, it can be used as a podcast, and that is the definition of a good idea. And coming from a place like RPA. We're even back in the days where a lot of people be like do a great television spot, do a great if the idea wasn't the centre, that place with Larry Postaerpuster was based on the idea that was the first thing that you presented. So just to skip ahead a little I think that's why in an industry, which was going through such transition from the Mac, to digital to all of these things were honestly some people, you know, didn't continue. Because I had been trained to start with the idea.

Robert Berkeley 17:04
It's a very pure way of looking at it, actually. And this is obviously this early influence with you. There h. Has has carried you through I mean, you work for a lot of agencies, almost all on the west coast, I think a bit of time in Detroit as well. Right.

Todd Miller 17:19
Correct.

Robert Berkeley 17:20
Which you're a fan of Detroit, is that right?

Todd Miller 17:22
I Yeah, I am, I actually love Detroit that I fell in love far before going to Detroit with a fifth generation California. And once I got to Detroit, I was constantly flying out to LA to do shoots. So I kind of left her there as well as are my two three year old twins. And, and she wasn't digging too much. So and I had an opportunity after you know, there, I was working at Tteam Detroit - PULSEpulse, which was, you know, with Greg Braun, you know, where we were doing everything but Ford for a team to try it. But had an opportunity to come back to Southern California and work at Ggarage Tteam. Mazda, we took it Okay.,

Robert Berkeley 18:00
Okay, Sso sSo again, you know, back to the this purity idea, the the idea that of the idea, itself, being root of everything carried through your Booz Allen, you were at TBWA as well. And I think we're the last mainstream agency you worked for was JW. T., Oobviously career doing very well, I'm sure that it didn't leave you a lot of time for that family you just mentioned,

Todd Miller 18:25
I think that might be the first inclination that people have the first idea, the first reason people think about in house is to have a life, you know, I been doing it for, you know, over 20 years. And let's face it, you know, we love it, we can't help it, I have a problem where, you know, I'll say, Oh, I'm going to go home at 6:30. And it's, you know, I decided at 6six o'clock, I'm gonna go home at 6:30. And I look up at the clock, and it's 10 o'clock at night, you know, I don't think I don't believe in staying late for fFace tTime. But if you're passionate about something, it's hard not to work those hours. But I did, I was under the... I was incorrect in believing that when I made it, for lack of a better term, more senior or higher up positions in advertising that I would be able to leave at 5:30-6:00 o'clock. And that was kind of the promise of all the work that you put in for 20 years is ultimately I'm going to make it to become an Executive Creative Director. And, and then, you know, back in the olden days, you know, meaning the early 2000s, you know, it seemed that, you know, some of the great ECDsecds and CCOnccos I worked for, you know, managed to have a life and travel and do a lot of the things, something seemed to happen. I would I'm guessing maybe due to the gGreat rRecession where budgets got cut, and all of these things were um, it seemed that ECD ability to leave, you know, it's 6:30 or so just just fell apart. And not that that's a requirement but it was something that as you work for 20 years and you see people leave the industry, you know whether they go into real estate, whether they go into nNursing, I mean, people leave the industry for that, that it was kind of that eye on the prize, which I was working toward, and going through, you know, probably, you know, eight agencies of being on staff and freelance, get probably 50 others, you know, it was always kind of the plan. And, and unfortunately, when I finally reached what I had been working toward, I was still, you know, working that, you know, 12 hours a day, you know, five, six times a week.

Robert Berkeley 20:23
So you did then make this role. Yeah, I mean, you you have all the people I've interviewed, you've had the most kind of my I don't want to say conventional, but you work for the for the for the mainstream agencies, you progressed your career, you've built it up. And as you say, you got to the point where I guess you thought you'd have more freedom than you in the event you did have. But then you took this step over to in house agencies had you encountered in house agencies in your career?

Todd Miller 20:50
Not at all, I think the only time I adult with an in the house agency was M&CMNC Saatchi, one of the smaller accounts I was working on with Citycity National Bank. And I remember we were working on a new print campaign, and I remember going to a presentation and there was a competing campaign. And I was kind of surprised by it. Because, you know, we'd brought a few examples. And then I was introduced to the in house team, and I didn't think anything much, much of it not good or or bad. But I just seemed, oh, there's an in house team. And then ultimately, looking back I realised, you know, working on everything from Taco Bell to you know, am/ pm or that there were in house teams, you know, that we're doing a lot of I guess, back then, we would say below the line work, collateral work. aAnd, you know, we now are about

Robert Berkeley 21:41
It should are about collateral production rather than ideation. Right? It was quite often interpretation of what an AORA had set up very often.

Todd Miller 21:49
Exactly the big idea campaign that, you know, that AOR had created, they would follow and there was a lot a lot of work that goes on that I honestly wasn't aware of. And, and but yeah, it seemed, you know, and to be honest with you., Tthe perception of even when I did hear about it of the in house is that, oh, you're kind of taking a step down, you know, you're kind of either selling out or you're giving up or your chops are gone, or you're you know, you're packing it in,

Robert Berkeley 22:19
he's saying none of this is true.

Todd Miller 22:20
Well, with the people I've met, I don't know everywhere, but certainly not, for what we're building here at Tthe Ccooler, which I'm wildly proud of. And, you know, it's not just me, it's the whole team here that have built this but.

Robert Berkeley 22:31
But Sso just quickly tell us how you how you made that step, then you're at J. Walter Thompson and clearly frustration there with with your lifestyle with your life, if not the work but your life. And then you made the step across to Experian. Just very quickly, how did that happen? How did that come about?

Todd Miller 22:46
Well, it came about because, you know, things weren't working, as I said, that Jj Walter mirim. aAnd, then I left there and I was actually freelancing, and I threw a couple of friends in Orange County. So I originally was in LA I had moved to Orange County after Detroit to come back to work on Garagegarage Teamt Mazdamonster. Aafter that, you know, and had gone to integer and TBWATWA. And then so I was commuting up and down. Because I didn't know much about Orange County. The only time I really knew about it besides Ggarage Team. Mazda was I was a freelance creative director and Land Rover for a A while ago in Orange County always had kind of a bad rap in LA. It's like, Oh, it's you know, conservative. It's scary. You know, what, it's actually far more beautiful than I thought. So anyway, you know, I kind of started becoming members of the scene there a few people from LA, who I knew, who would invite me to parties and all this and I just kind of met some people., Uultimately, through these variety of people, I bumped into one being, you know, Darren Levis, who is the director of brand here., Yyou know, met him and he said to me, you know, something, there's been quite a change at at Experian, were looking for someone like you, is it possible, you'd be interested in this? So, Experian experience, you know, they brought me in to talk and, you know, they had an in house kind of Creative Services Division, and their AOSR for 10 years was, was the Martin Aagency. And, you know, I kind of came in and honestly, I felt you know, there was a lot of digital stuff going on, that I was going to be involved with. And as time went on, I realised that there was another plan, which I wasn't sure about, I thought it might take a little bit of time, but it happened very quickly. And ultimately, I decided with my team that which is I mean, for better for worse significantly different than when I started a couple years ago, but we decided to not be creative services and brand ourselves as Tthe Ccooler and we changed you know, we had to brand ourselves to change the perception as well as, as well as change, you know, the kind of work that we did. And alsoall...

Robert Berkeley 24:46
that comes up a lot actually is to a there are a lot of in house agency that just call themselves you know, kind of ex core cCreative sServices and that's it and then there are the others that have branded themselves and have have gone down there. tThat rRoute, but it sounds to me like you felt to cut off from the old and say, we're here and to announce your presence, you needed to rebrand yourself.

Todd Miller 25:09
It it...It's both to rebrand ourselves for others, you know, add experience, for example, here for others, which we treat, incidentally, as clients. It's also important for the team who you are working with who worked with me to rebrand ourselves to say, this is the dawn of a new era, things are changing. We are not, you know, this direction that you've been on. And hopefully, it's a direction you want to pursue. But it is also an internal to say that we look at ourselves differently now as well. It is not just for external purposes, it is also to change the way that we feel. And ultimately, you know, it worked out I mean, you know, for a variety of reasons, you know, the Martin AgencyMartin agency, you know, was no longer the AORsr, and my team is now responsible, Martin AgencyMartin agency was mostly responsible for broadcast for national broadcast. And now my team is responsible for that. And we were on our third or fourth campaign. And, incidentally, some of the most successful, you know, response campaigns, I would like to call the brand response campaigns, you know, shooting with everyone from Tarsem to Ben Quinn to I mean, not pursuing that B level perception that people would say and functioning as like any other Aa level agency, I am building with the help of the people here, you know, Darren Levis, as well as Kevin Everhart, who's the, you know, Head of Marketing here., Bbuilding a, you know, even I don't even like to call it an in house agency not to, not to cast any aspersions on in house agency, it's an agency that happens to be in house with one client. And, and it is all done in house, you know, not rarely using freelancers, and generally not for ideating. But we get a brief that I work on with, you know, an account executive that we have, and, and you know, planners and there's, you know, it's experience, there's tonnes of data, that we go through to create a great brief. And then, much like any agency I've been at as an Aart Ddirector, and also, incidentally, I've been a writer still are, and I still am. But, you know, like, much like any agency where brief comes out, and it goes out to the team. And sometimes it's a jump ball, sometimes it's a direct assignment. But those briefs go to my team, and they section themselves off in teams. And again, there are six or seven teams who go and then present to me, their ideas. Now, unlike them, owning it. One thing I like, I believe in creating a team, I think that's more important than just about anything in creating great work, then we all look at them together. And we all make them work together, we all give ways that we can help. So we all take ownership of all the ads. And again, we're not just doing broadcast, although that clearly for in house is kind of the the sexiest and perhaps most unusual thing. But where my team is also responsible for social for digital video. I mean, it's really an extraordinary team. And I'm so proud of, you know, all the things we've done, the people we've worked with the awards that we've won, but for example, the awards have everybody's name on it, which is, you know, fortunate with 15 people if

Robert Berkeley 28:08
I was going to skipping a little bit, but I was going to ask you what the point of awards is in this post Madison Avenue environment that we're in now, I don't know if that's a three true thing to say. But you know, what I you know, what I'm getting at?

Todd Miller 28:20
I think I can understand that. In fact, I think what's difficult is if you're you know, going for a lion, or if you're going for one club, it's hard to justify $1,000 entry when, you know, being at a traditional place where a an enormous part of my responsibility was new business. I mean, I was really a new business guy that was probably at...

Robert Berkeley 28:38
that level, you would be I guess, yeah...,

Todd Miller 28:40
part of my I would say my greatest successes that would probably help me grow in my career was was new business successes, as well, as you know, a lot of broadcasts a lot of awards, a lot of you know, it's been a career that I'm very proud of and loved. So you're right, it seems odd to want to pursue awards, we're basically there for two reasons. One, in advertising, generally, people stick around for a year and a half, 18 months. In fact, two years, if you're creative at an ad agency, it seems like you've been there too long. So awards become either a calling card for new agency or a coupon for a raise. Also, for an Executive Creative Director awards are a new business mechanism. Now clearly, you know, the ladder the new business mechanism doesn't work here. But I believe that these things are important to the team. Everybody likes a pat on the back. I like a pat on the back and even under an in house agency, there are certain things that we pursue from from a typical from a traditional agency point of view, to let us know that we're that we're being successful, or when I changed my LinkedIn job to you know, going in house to working here at Experian. I mean, I just got a load of shit for my contemporaries whether it be about being sold out, whether it be going to work for the Deathstar, all this stuff that I change teams and then I'd given up and that you know, all these other things that pursue it. I just sold a how jealous? Well, you know, originally I was like, Oh, this is rough. But you know, I wanted to sit there and go, Yeah, but like, I'm actually having dinner with my kids, which I haven't in a while. And it was, it was a difficult decision to be honest with you. But you know, the priorities have changed. And I had to give that a shot. Now, not so much those same people who were writing, you know, that I had sold out are now asking me you know about how great it is and how interesting it is. And it really is when I initially, however, since I, you know, started Tthe Ccooler, and you know, the couple years I've been here, I really unfortunate that I kind of managed to have my cake and eat it too, because I thought I would be giving up the quality of work. I had that same pre judgement about in house and I was wrong. And it's about work. It's about having great clients. It's about having a great team. And it's about supporting that. And I'd say the biggest does to an in house agency sometimes also is that you guys do the same thing over and over again, people are staying there for years, they're not leaving, they're not quitting, how are you going to keep the creative? Interesting? How are you going to keep it fresh? How are you going to keep it do? Well, that's kind of my job. That's the job of a creative is,

Robert Berkeley 31:10
You know it's surely the best creativity comes from restraint, right? You're given parameters, free rein in all directions, but you've got very tight parameters, perhaps and from that you can be more creative than then if you had all the choice in the world.

Todd Miller 31:24
Yeah, I think that, you know, you know, looking back into the into some of the early projects, I think I agree with that. But mostly when you have this is a totally, you know, kind of different point. But when you're given something which has a tiny budget, that's where you really have to be, you know, the excitement of figuring out the problem solving and figuring out the idea. I mean, I ultimately I think that creatives are problem solvers. You know, we're given a problem, and we have to solve it. It's not just, you know, making it interesting to watch. And of course, in these days, we have to disrupt, you know, people that word that word disruption, which is used endlessly, but the fact of the matter, it's true, we have to disrupt what people are doing to make them pay attention.

Robert Berkeley 32:04
The idea comes through really loudly, and I'm talking about the TV ads that that I've seen, which you've been filming since Well, since we started talking, I think last November. And yeah, the idea come through and the execution is is very polished. And I think absolutely testament to what can be done with in house agencies, when you know, when you have that kind of focus. So I want to just just kind of wrap up a little bit, because you've said that, you know, you are where you are now, The Coolerthe cooler. And you've only been there a short while I guess you've got plans, I don't know whether you want to share any of those plans over the coming years, and where you think you're going to go, you're going to grow the in house agency, for example, are there other areas you need to cover?

Todd Miller 32:45
I mean, I would love to grow it, it's already grown quite a bit and what our responsibilities are. But you know, what is more important than growing is keeping the team happy and excited and engaged. Because you know, a happy team makes great creative and great creative makes a happy team. And, you know, it really is not what I expected. So I feel extraordinarily fortunate, you know what this has become, but the future of it is continuing to build a team that does great work, you know, looking for some new people constantly,

Robert Berkeley 33:17
you're changing the perception of what it is to be a credit agency, especially, you know, they've had a rough ride over the past few years and the whole, you know, it's become so much more important to people. And you're you're really pressing hot buttons in your campaigns about identity theft and responding to that in a way that people can understand as well. So, there, I can see that there's probably a lot of mileage in that for sure.

Todd Miller 33:39
Yeah, I appreciate that. Because that's really what we're trying to accomplish. It's a lot to explain, but um, but we're doing pretty, it seems to be doing pretty well.

Robert Berkeley 33:47
So you said that part of the the the decision, which clearly you don't regret, but that was about spending more time having dinner with your family. And you also keep mentioning hobbies. So You Think You haven't told us is what the hobby is? What do you do when you're not when you're not an Experianexperiment in the office? Okay, well,

Todd Miller 34:03
Okay, well, here's the dirty little secret is I did recognise after being here for a while that a substantial reason for me working a lot of hours, is my own nuttiness is not necessarily. I just disappear, I will, you know, I will say I'm going to leave at 6six o'clock and I will look up and it will be 10 o'clock at night. That's my own problem. But what my so that is something I have to deal with. And I could do that here. And that's what everybody does here. And that's one of the benefits, but the hobby that I have is now living in Huntington Beach is I am well I guess currently I am a potential surfer. I'm hoping that my hobby will move from being a potential surfer to a kinetic surfer. And being an actually so 20 years in Los Angeles.

Robert Berkeley 34:4850
You have lived 20 years in Los Angeles. There's really not much excuse for this only now becoming kinetic so...

Todd Miller 34:54
Well the excuse was that I was too busy working.

Robert Berkeley 34:57
Oh, that's great, oh that’s great...a good point. I forgot about all that. Yeah. I forget about entire career.

Todd Miller 35:021
And also Huntington Beach is you know, Surf City, USA. So you know, when you leave for work in the morning, there's all those, you know, dads and kids who are, you know, going for a morning surfing and, and that, you know, is my kind of fantasy of being one of those dads with my kids. But the problem is I've done I've done all the thinking, but the execution is, is taking a bit longer than I expected.

Robert Berkeley 35:230
longer than I expected. Well, you know, just keep plugging away at it. And what about reading? Do you get any time to read at all?

Todd Miller 35:27
I am reading I used to read probably a book a week and then kids kind of dad over especially have a lay twinsdowns. Well, it's not, you know, it's where you go to bed at night and you kind of read the first three sentences and then you fall asleep. But no, I have returned back to writing and reading, you know, nothing to do with the job that I have, you know, sometimes escapist novels and also some nonfiction, especially with what's going on in our, you know, our country this time to probably have

Robert Berkeley 35:55
a new book every week about, shall we say, what's going on? So there's plenty of material there.

Todd Miller 36:01
There,. tThere certainly is. And I'm kind of a, you know, which is great there. I am a podcast fanatic. The that is kind of disappointing about now living about, you know, a 15 minute drive from my office, is that when I used to have to drive to this is LA.la So it used to have to drive, you know, 2-3two, three hours, probably a total of four hours a day. I had much more time for myself,

Robert Berkeley 36:23
I had much more time for myself, like a two mile commute.

Todd Miller 36:25
Yeah, I was obsessive with podcasting. I mean, I not podcasting with listening to podcasts. I love podcasts.

Robert Berkeley 36:33
So aside from Iinside Jjobs, which I'm sure you subscribe to, is, indeed I urge our listeners to press that subscribe button if they're enjoying what they're hearing. Now. Aside from that, Todd, what podcast dDid you did you prefer if you can say

Todd Miller 36:47
I am, I am a politics and news junkie. So besides listening to NPR, hourly report every hour, I also listened to a lot of the slate podcast Ppod Ssave America.,

Robert Berkeley 36:58
Yyou're gonna make it over to the the IHAF have conference in November in Boston.

Todd Miller 37:04
That is the intention meet in Boston, which I remember looking forward to seeing you again and seeing everyone there because it really was a blast as well as educational. So it's not it's not just all it's not just all fun and laughs It's it's a learning experience.

Robert Berkeley 37:19
You have to ration the fun and the laughs

Todd Miller 37:21
You have to have both kind of like being creative. You have to you know, it's not fine art, and it's not science, it's gut.

Robert Berkeley 37:29
Well, I look forward to introducing you to the woman whose career was inspired by I don't know whether it was your Aad Aabsolute but the Aabsolute campaign i think that that, you know, really thumbssums up what you seem to believe about this business, which is it starts with the art it starts with the idea and and then you focus it in on making it commercial and making it deliver results. It's been a fantastic experience talking to you, Todd, thank you so much for your time.

Todd Miller 37:55
I really enjoyed myself. Thanks very much.