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Robert Berkeley  0:02  

Well! Hello and welcome to Inside Jobs, the podcast featuring In House Agency  leaders sharing who they are, where they been, and what they're up to next, hopefully, Inside Jobs is brought to you by i have also known as the iIn House Agency Forum, and by Express KCS, the content production partner to corporate creative teams. Now, our next guest JR Curley, I have actually known for quite a long time, he used to work for a long standing client of ours, and then I think, JR, you were the LA outpost, or at least that's what it seemed like, but now central to his employers business. You are vice president of creative and content at FabFitFun , very warm welcome, JR. 

 

JR Curley  0:45

Thank you so much for having me, it is an absolute pleasure and honour to be here as well. Very excited to chat with you. 

 

Robert Berkeley  0:51 

So, what we're going to do is we want to hear about your background. But before we start dive into that, I mentioned that you're at FabFitFun. And you've got this very important sounding title, but but put a bit of colour onto that, what is it you actually do, and then we'll fill into that a little bit more later on. But it will just give give a sense of what you're up to. 

 

JR Curley  01:11 

Absolutely absolutely and I think it's interesting, because titles or titles, right, so I think as as currently, I'm the VP of creative and content. But interestingly enough, internally, we actually call it brand marketing. And from our point of view, that is a collaboration between our creative and content team, as well as some of our organic, social and talent partnership individuals. And we're really responsible for most of the brand touch points we have with our members, and prospective members as well, we really dive into the seasonal themes that comes with our company two campaigns we build out and do both internally and externally. And almost all the visual elements that any member or anyone who's not a member would see whether it be an advertisement on television, a social media, post, some of the writing content that you see, all the way to our box design itself. Because it's a part of our membership. As you receive this really beautiful box, we really touch upon almost everything. And it's a wonderful team to be a part of, I may be the leader of it. But in all reality, the team itself is so fantastic. It's just it's a joy to work with them. 

 

Robert Berkeley  02:20
You nearly talking yourself out of a job that you know that you got to be careful. But you didn't start out in the in the beauty and fashion world. Did you so much as it'll be hard to for anyone to believe that but take us way back? Where were you from originally? And what kind of environment Did you grow up in? 

 

JR Curley  02:35
Oh, you know, I grew up in a very eclectic and interesting environment that often when I when I tell a lot of people or just kind of raise an eyebrow, but it is the truth. Oddly enough, I grew up most of my my childhood was overseas. Oh, really across multiple countries and across several continents, which, which actually, I think really helped me get into this design space. That's creative thinking space. So I spent a lot of time in countries like Ivory Coast, Gabon, Australia, Germany, Nigeria, Somalia, there's more and more. But what was really 

 

Robert Berkeley  03:09
You just went to free travelling child, I presume that there was there was some parental oversight where

JR Curley  03:14

 There was the absolutely my father happened to work for the government underscore that. And so with that, we we typically, move 

 

Robert Berkeley

Correct should we tell too much into that.

 

JR Curley  3:25  

I think we’re Okay. We're happily retired now. But yeah, we tended to move

Robert Berkeley  03:30

 I'm thinking Robert De Niro now.

 

JR Curley  3:34  

Yeah, man of mystery is my father. 

 

Robert Berkeley
He is what I was thinking.

 

JR Curleyr  3:39  

That's right. I don't he doesn't have that his job is right. That's right. Yes, I remember that. That's a classic movie. 

 

Robert Berkeley  03:49
Anyway, sorry. Go on. Yeah. 

 

JR Curley  03:50
Well, with with that moving, I think what was really interesting, and you don't realise this, as a child, I think you absorb things naturally, they just come to you, especially if your parents allow you to have that open view, which is wonderful. So every two years to four years, we would move to a different country. And with that came literally an entire plethora of sights, sounds, colours, textures, culture. And as a child, I just absorbed that. And so as I got later in my high school, I realised I'd always been into art. So traditional art of drawing painting. And at the same time, I joyously was also a nerd, and love computer games and computers. And as I was graduating from high school, actually in Germany, I realised, wait a minute, there's an actual career and it's called graphic design that I was aware of, and what a great way to leverage all this stuff I've kind of absorbed throughout my life, but also be able to sit on a computer and do things that are really fun, compute computer wise. And so that's kind of how I got to where I am now, at least in this field, was really through that childhood, and all of those experiences of being able to see and in see really engage with these different types of things across across the globe. 

 

Robert Berkeley  05:06
I mean, that's hugely stimulating. Can you recall any particular incidents when you were in any of these countries that really kind of sticks in your mind? 

 

JR Curley  05:13
Yes, it was very young. I lived in Libreville, Gabon. And if you look it up, it's right on the equator, in the beautiful continent of Africa, and my father took took us to a really wonderful local dance, there was some new change in the local government, and they had several local dancers out. And we're talking hundreds of individuals and amazingly enough, I think we actually have eight millimetre film of it, because my father was also a nerd and had purchased these new fandangled. video recorders Yes, are probably the size of my car. But regardless, I vividly recall the lines of dancers, and they were representing where they came from. So it was always a different pattern and colour swatches on their patterns, these incredible dresses, I vividly recall the vibration, as these different groups were dancing different dances traditional to where they came from. So that's I think that's probably the first visual recollection I have of just realising that colour movement in textures could really make something special, 

 

Robert Berkeley  06:16
What an experience. But well, I say that that's incredible. When you decided that when your parents decided, whoever decided that you actually needed to go to university? You went to Connecticut, is that right? 

 

JR Curley  06:27
That is correct. So because I graduated in high school in Germany, it was a very different approach. And I think the traditional us method of going to universities, on top of that, many of the schools I went to were very small. So I took correspondence courses at some times, or I took school from home, some of the schools we went to, were, I think I had eight people, one of my classes. So it's very different approach. And with that, I really wanted to find a school that resonated with me, but also supported the programme and arts that I went into, and so wound up in Connecticut at University of Connecticut. And with that, stumbled across several of my several friends, who were, of course, similar fields, because we're all in the same. We're all going and focusing in the same areas of the arts. But what's really interesting is I began to see that there was much more than what I had taken in. So I had a very linear view of what graphic design was and what design art was. And I'll recall, one of my classmates received a job at a snowboard company. And I was I really was into snowboarding that time. And I remember hearing him come back and tell us this internship of creating layouts and board designs. And I thought to myself, Wow, the fact that you can do these things and just have other people see what you've worked on and be really excited about it. And believe in it, it was really, really powerful. And I remember that was a big switch for me. And I thought to myself, when I'm done with school, and when I move on, I really need to find a place that resonates with me, then, as with many people, real life happened. And when I got out of school, I actually moved to Boston was very close to university Connecticut and close to Connecticut clearly borders a state. And I thought to myself, This is great tonnes of wonderful places to work at many places looking for experience and a very deep portfolio of experience. And so that's when I realised I needed to have a different approach. And perhaps I wouldn't be able to, in my mind's eye be in a really amazing agency right away on a scooter. 

 

Robert Berkeley  08:27
So are you a little idealistic, little by little? 

 

JR Curley  08:31
Yes, yes. Which is how I got in to PriceWaterhouseCoopers, which is probably as far away as most people can think of design. But that's how that transition transpired is I realised I needed to find more experience in the office environment or professional environment, and begin to do a host of temp jobs while I did other work just to make ends meet. And as I did these temp jobs, I stumbled across an old company that doesn't exist now. It's been merged, which is Coopers and Lybrand, and vividly recall walking into that space, I was supposed to be able to help cover an employee. I don't recall exactly the specifics. But I heard someone say, Oh, we're going to take this print magazine to the design team. And I raised my hand, I will take that over. So I want to meet this design team. Because I couldn't fathom that a company like Coopers and Lybrand, professional services company, a massive global company at the timewould have designers in it. How would you design in this space? We're going back a little bit, Robert. So everyone's still wore suits Monday through Friday, Yeah right? Yeah. And I was so transfixed with this brand new world that literally open to me, which was in house design, because I never thought of it. I think I simply always thought of agencies was the only place to go Yeah, of course yeah. And so I think that that's what really began my path down this In House Agencyin house agency or in house design team. path. 

 

Robert Berkeley  09:57 
So you start but you started as sort of

 

10:00  

hoping then, I think projects and freelance and and kind of got absorbed that way. 

 

JR Curley  10:05
100%. And in reality, what I'll say is I know many people do freelance and do temp work, I would say it was a really wonderful formative time of my career because it allowed me to experience in a very short period of time, multiple personalities, multiple leadership styles, multiple team members styles, different office cultures and approaches. In a very short period of time, I got to experience in multiple places, everything from law firms, to restaurant style is very different. And when I stumbled upon this design team at Coopers and Lybrand, now PricewaterhouseCoopers, that's what I realised a couple of things. One is, large companies have a very robust in house team. Second, their approach is a little bit different. The Teaming is very different. And the competition, 

 

Robert Berkeley  10:53
And how would you characterise that difference? 

 

JR Curley  10:56 
Yeah, it's a good question. So when my experience, I've noticed that in house space, you're really working. Not that you are an agent, but you're really working in a very collaborative, many method with your internal clients, because your internal clients and you are, you are part of the same company, just a different cultural approach than when you work as an agency or as yourself as a freelancer or you run your own design business. When that happens, it truly is a client. And I think with the In House Agency, really, what you begin to learn is you just begin to have deep institutional knowledge of the company are working in, you understand the business at a level that at times can be much deeper than a client who's come and sitting with you enjoying what that is, as an internal In House Agency. And I know some some, some In House Agencies do struggle with this. But in my experience, and perhaps I was really lucky, a lot of the agencies I worked at brand and design was a core element of that company's values. And so there was a really interesting level of respect and curiosity from individuals who were not in the design field. So a lot of sitting down with you and working it out with you, and helping educate you to make sure you make better design decisions versus typically were in agency models or my freelance experience, the client is really looking for you to find the 100% of the solution, not to say it's less collaborative, but you're not necessarily working with someone for a year to understand exactly what that business is. And so I think there's a 

 

Robert Berkeley  12:21
There's a lot to be said, for sharing the, you know, as it were sharing a pay packet knowing that you're both being paid by the same people, does change attitudes, and does make things more collaborative as well? 

 

JR Curley  12:32
It does, it does. And I think, you know, I've worked in a couple of different environments, I'm sure listeners have also worked in different environments where it's either a pay model or not pay model internally, in my experience, initially, it was not. So with that, in that, I'd say, very relaxed amount of timing or work on a project. And also, with some of these in house teams being very large timing was just a little bit different, the way you approach things was a little bit different in terms of your ability to dig in and do some voice of the member feedback and other stuff that we put into your design experiences. And so with that, I think I fell in love with the in house approach. And that's now of course, how I've been my career progress in that space a little bit different. Where I currently am, because it's not truly an agency model. Yet, at the same time, it is still this deeply embedded structure where design and creative interior point, the leaders of the company are in true synergy. And they really are looking for the same thing. 

 

Robert Berkeley  13:27
Well, I mean, it's it's worth mentioning at this point that PwC won the agency, the IHAF agency of the Year award last year 2021, which was an outstanding achievement for anyIn House Agency that it's come may have come as a surprise to many people outside the world of finance that such a company would be so creative and would have such creative roots. And clearly you were part of that. And you were working on the west coast for them by the end, is that right? 

 

JR Curley  13:53
Yes, I was and I so first of all, I'd say absolute congratulations to PwC and well deserved.  

 

Robert Berkeley  13:59
And Jack Chiba let's, let's name check Jack. 

 

JR Curley  14:02
Well, well deserved and really in all reality, that team is such a powerhouse and creative thought process as well as what I mentioned earlier, a really deep skill said knowledge in the business itself. PwC and other agencies like or other companies like this, also, they do have clients and so they are working with their clients on these into just so much interest to make sure that the collaborative output is aligned that it's I think it really benefits the team as an in house designer, especially for some of these larger companies, much of the work that those companies do, and the designers do, and we did in those spaces were confidential, or unshare bubble outside and it was always a bit of a challenge as designer to go to these wonderful lovely AIGA conferences and other conferences and realise that we couldn't necessarily share the work we were doing, or at least not in the same way and I remember vividly thinking about I have when I first connected with them, realising this is another channel andThat's such a beautiful channel that really allows agencies In House Agencies such as PwC, and other companies have really excellent output place to discuss amongst peers. 

 

Robert Berkeley  15:10 

But you did move on. In 2014, you decided to move on from PwC. Wait, where did you go? And why did you get that? 

 

JR Curley  15:19 

Oh, yeah, great question. So PwC, I think like any large company, the constant, I always used to joke, their constant is change. And so we were constantly changing and shifting the team to better match the needs of the company, and then match the needs of our clients. And we had one last reorg, that I was a part of it in that the approach was a little bit different. And we had some options, because again, this is a beautiful thing about these giant companies that give you options. And one option they provided to us was really a lovely one that I realised would allow me to take a step away from that space, and start my own business. And in a risk fee risk or sorry, risk free circumstance. And with that I was you know what, I've always dreamed about running my own small agency, I want to give this a shot and see what happens, let's experience the joy of doing this on my own. And that's what I did. So I left PwC and began formed a company called Panagram, and worked there for several years, a creative cloudberry collaborative company with several designers and other individuals who helped with that. The co founder of that also was kind of a ghost co founder who helped out as well quietly to the side. And it was an absolute, an absolute adventure, to move from a giant global corporation with a massive crew of designers, to a very small, four or five person team and begin to experience what it felt like to really drive your own, I suppose drive your own future. And have that authority control over the path you're going to take? So yeah, that's what we did. 

 

Robert Berkeley  16:54
I'm curious, then you came out of college with design on your mind. And we didn't talk about whether you were, you know, a very creative child, or is it you know, always drawing or whether you had particular interest in the arts. But nevertheless, I presume there was something there you were a designer, by the time you finished at PwC? Did you still think of yourself as a designer? Is that why planogram happened because I did you feel that you also had a business sense and operational and business sense to go with that, by that time. 

 

JR Curley  17:21
It is both, there is still a sense of design and creativity, being able to IDT out of the out of the box. However, with that came and this is the wonderful thing about working in a large company like PwC came all the business knowledge and information that traditionally you would receive at a business company. And in one thing was really wonderful. I think many companies are like this at a very large, so many learning experiences and opportunities that you might not get it other smaller companies, everything from understanding the business itself at a global scale. And what that means to providing educational opportunities that are quite costly, like six sigma training and the like, what was really great is over time of working at PwC, I felt I had enough grasp of the business space and business world to run a business autonomously. And I still had the creative experience and urgency and want to try to find solutions for clients out there. Because that's really what PwC in later in my life, I went to BCG as well. You're finding solutions for your clients, external or internal, you're helping them achieve something. And so that really that combination was really stellar, and wonderful. And I think that that's one of the one of the hidden, the hidden pros of working in these larger companies, they may look large and mountainous from the outside. But when you get inside, they are much like many small companies, they are simply a an amalgamation of many, many, many small teams who are trying to work together seamlessly. And with that comes just such a breath of learning and knowledge, hypothetically, in an odd way. Much like when I grew up as a child, every two to four years, I would move to a new country and I would learn and experience new things. My town could be seen as very similar, every two to four years, we would have a shift in the organisation or a shift in their approach or a shift in the structure or I'd have a new role.  

 

Robert Berkeley  19:11 

You have and they're for the rebranding, were you because they did a rebranding? 

 

JR Curley  19:14 

Yes, yes. And so I think with that comes all the experiences. So yes, so when I when I made Panagram at the time, I realised I do want to sit now I want to sit in person with these clients and solve these big challenges. On the flip side, I also want to have designers experience what I experienced when I was coming up and learning how to work with clients and learning how to design and come across these things. And last but not least PriceWaterhouseCoopers these big companies myself. So I thought you know what I've also learned how to sell and be around individuals who sell and close deals. So I think that this is going to work and let's give this a shot and give it a try and see what happens and so went on a two year journey of experiencing that. It was a lot of fun. It was painful. It was joyful. It was everything in the middle. 

 

Robert Berkeley  19:58
So you mentioned Bostonas well, they're after Pentagram., you spent a couple of years there, Boston Consulting that is. 

 

JR Curley  20:06
I did, I did. So I was at Pentagram. And a, it sounds like the joke of the movies. But realistically, I stumbled across an opportunity at at Boston Consulting Group. That was it just felt perfect. It was the concept was really coming in and reinventing the entire North American creative organisation, and building it. 

 

Robert Berkeley  20:28
They, they wanted your experience of PwC, as well as your kind of smaller experience at Panagram, I guess, combination at that point. 

 

JR Curley  20:36 

Yes, yes. It's interesting, because as we walk through this career progression, you're hearing is almost building blocks is as I learned that he this is just for any anyone really is you learn different things, just in package opens up more opportunities for you and 

 

Robert Berkeley  20:52 

You may not know what they are in advance. But when you get there, it makes sense. 

 

JR Curley  20:56
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I vividly remember when I sat down at BCG was outlined with what that company had thought was the right approach. This was what was great because I took that business experience and realise what could work from a business perspective. But from a creative perspective, I'd also understood and worked in, In House Agenciesin house agencies and had my own for a while I realised there was a different way we could do this, that would be successful in the long run. And a lot of companies you brought up process and approvals. It's true, they are there. However, if you have the right leader and the right approach and the company, those processes and systems really should be supporting you, they shouldn't be in your way. And I think that that it clearly individually spoke to most likely it sounds like those, unfortunately, maybe are getting in the way. But BCG was a bit magical, where my boss incredible, incredible woman who led our, our, our CEO of the company, absolutely incredible, I learned so much for her, she really had a lot of faith in my vision and activities. And so the traditional rules you would have or you believe would happen in many companies were not there, they were simply there to make sure that we went the right path. And BCG itself is an excellent company and can't say enough about them. But what was really magical about that was it's an idea company, and they want to hear those ideas because they are consultants and want to solve. And so when we went into that space, that experience of the business side, as I mentioned before, and the creative side, that completely dovetailed in to allow us to move forward and build out a brand new design organisation in North America that was then replicated with some modifications across the globe, in Europe and in Asia pack in India. 

 

Robert Berkeley  22:44
So it's really I'm really curious when you were doing this after your experience PwWC and then with a smaller agency, how confident did you feel there? Was there? Was there any imposter syndrome? Or was it really Yeah, I know what to do here. It's as clear as that.

 

JR Curley  22:57  

You know, that's an awesome question. I don't think this is PMOs speaking. Personally, I think that imposter syndrome is always going to be somewhere in every element of your life. Even when you make tea in the morning, you wonder if you're the right person to make your own tea, because there's probably a better way to do it. And someone knows way more about the tea leaves and that tea bag than you do. That's that is like,I'm going to go backwards a long time ago. And I remember I may get this wrong, but I recall it. I think it was the Mars the first Mars lander. I recall when it landed, the gentleman I don't remember his name was given a who led the entire Mars team was in the room and he gave his speech. And I remember he said something along the lines of and this is gonna be terrible. But along the lines of saying that he never could or wanted to be the smartest person in the room, he had to surround himself by others. And that's where the confidence comes from. And it was very similar there. I've never felt that I'm the best designer. I've never felt I'm the best business person. I've never felt the strongest conviction in those two areas. However, when surrounded with the right people, the imposter syndrome, from my point of view, it literally blows away like a cloud in sunny wind, it just it's gone. One of the best, most positive, I would say supportive cultures I've ever experienced a large company, they did a fantastic job at that. 

 

Robert Berkeley  24:15
Well, clearly, becauseyou, you've been doing sort of B2B, high level finance related or consulting related, some would regard relatively dry, you know, in terms of the industries in which you were operating, although I'm sure very creative within that. So I'm really curious to know about the switch that you made after BCG and how the hell that came about. And also, let's let's dig back into imposter syndrome again. Curious, you've been there a while now. So you say if you can say what you like, if they do tell us what happened now.

JR Curley  24:47
I would say with that at PwC and BCG, I was able to also experience not just the dry but also really stellar, incredible, fun, huge, wonderful companies, smaller companies.ll luck under delicious NDA. So I can't say who they were. But they were all fantastic. I remember one of the designers of BCG jokingly drew a self portrait on one of our walls with him with sunglasses, and a fedora and a trench coat and said, We're the secret agents of the designers. Because we really are is really incredible to work on something and see a brand roll it out three years later, and think I worked on that, but no, ever No. Yeah. So So BCG with that with BCG, everything was was very different in really provide more experience in different spaces, including a bit of the beauty and fashion world now, at at sapphic fun, again, very, to your point, very different approach. So now my experience has been huge company, my own company, very big company. And all of a sudden, there's something close to home close to here, individually, I'd worked out before and other companies were also at this, at fact, that fun and fun was, it was and still is on this kind of explosive growth path. And with that, again, came this opportunity to take a look at how we could amplify that internal creative team and make some big shifts. And I think that I'm realising and hovers over time, I love being in a space, being able to help these giant shifts that not only positively impact the company, but also positively impact the employees and the team members. Because without that, you're in a very difficult place. And I was speaking to a friend of mine who worked at the company, hearing more and more about it. And I thought to myself, This just feels like a really incredible opportunity. Begin to chat with them. And out of the blue, as you're now aware, I was at FabFitFun in a very, very different world, which I believe is a really interesting cross pollination of what I was saying agency experience and feel, but is also in that in House transition space. So not quite as big level as PwWC and BCG, but on that path of growth. And that was what I found fascinating. And also you know what it's really interesting to try things that are a little bit different in always continue to educate yourself and experience more and more out there. It's just a path that I I've always been drawn to. And I realise there was so much opportunity at FabFitFun. So it really sucked me it also great talking to people there. They're so fired up and interested and really believe in the company. It's a that can be very infectious in a good way. 

 

Robert Berkeley  27:34 

So FabFitFun. There you are, what's the first 100 days like it's a fast growing company? What did they have when you got there? And and how did you kind of manage that transition of yourself into that business? After the experience you'd had there? 

 

JR Curley  27:48
Lots and lots of listening and learning? Literally, this was a company when I came into, I realised two things. One is this is a different space, but I need to understand it more deeply. So that was the first piece. The second part was I need to talk to everyone who's been here and understand what that growth has been for them. And, 

 

Robert Berkeley  28:09
Was it a big department at that point?

JR Curley  28:11 
Design team is a fairly good sized department there. Yes, it you know, it's all relative, right. But I think that the experience, I've had design teams have range from my own, which was the smallest, you know, four or five, in the, you know, low hundreds to 50 or so fairly large design teams for in house groups. And because fabric fun is a has a full production arm of designers and photographers and videographers there. Like that team was a fairly good size. I don't ever remember the numbers around the 50s or so,

and with it literally, like I said was just a lot of me sitting down and learning so I can understand what the problems are versus being told what the problems are. I really want to absorb what we can solve together as a team. You know, my approach is not to join a company and say, here's the way we're going to do it. It's to figure out what's happening. How can we team together as a group? And how can we solve together that from my point of view is always the best way to engage, and

Robert Berkeley  29:07 
Let's dig into that with some specifics. I mean, what were the early challenges that you you had to tackle and tell us a little about how you approach those? 

 

JR Curley  29:15 
You know, I think it was in the brochures I had to tackle are ones I believe we see it almost every company. They're the most mundane ones process,communication, and structure. And those are the three biggest challenges that we had and anyway seen us I would say those are the three challenges. We had it everywhere. I've worked at a really understanding and streamlining your process, making sure that things work the way they should and process to me isn't just we submit a request and someone does it. It's also the engagement and when information comes in who talks to who and all that good stuff. Communication is always I think a challenge no matter where I've been making sure the right teams are communicating with each other, often or not. I feeldesign teams and creative teams in house, other groups aren't quite sure when to talk to you or even what to tell you. And that I believe is a productive asset that most In House Agencies and design teams should take as they can go on to ask those questions themselves to help educate them. So that was a big, big, big piece of it. 

 

Robert Berkeley  30:16 
And you applied lessons you'd learned from PCG, PwC along the way, and you implemented some of these processes, did you? Or was it a matter of taking and fine tuning the ones you had? It was already had.  I mean

 

JR Curley  30:27
, it was a mixture of both. I think this comes from the business experience, where a lot of us who have worked at business space should begin to kind of fall back into some of the, I would say the linchpins of what is business. So using some of those methodologies, whether it be doing deep dive races, whether it being doing true SWOT analysis, whatever, 

 

Robert Berkeley  30:49
And this is a professionalisation, that, that they needed, they hadn't up to that point, had Oh, professionalisation the right word really? 

 

JR Curley  30:58
No, it's a good question. I think in this is just my approach, every agency should constantly be checking this information and trying to revisit their processes and revisit the way they communicate, it should be repeated growth that should be baked into that agency, or that in house teams DNA, you had mentioned earlier, I think you'd say about kind of stale approach or whatever it might be. But I think from a design space to be comfortable, is dangerous. And they already had many, many things going the right direction. Like I said, growth, there is really wonderful, the team was fantastic. That doesn't mean you can't always fine tune. So a lot of it was fine tuning. And sometimes that fine tuning can give you so much. And it depends on the space, you know, generically, you probably follow Formula One, you can fine tune something by a millimetre. And that can win a race. Big difference. And it's similar, I think, in the design field, in agency of fields where these little tiny things that might seem small, they add up over time, not just in a process to reduce time and give it as our back time, but also from a morale perspective, and just an overall teaming engagement perspective. So they had some really great processes in place already. When I came in, I really sat down and started to do the deep dive that they hadn't had the chance to do yet, simply because that hadn't been the focus at the time. And also,

Robert Berkeley  32:25
Credit growth tends to consume Oh, really doesn't it tonnes of attention, and and you're looking at trees and can't see the word. 

 

JR Curley  32:32
It's a great problem to have very great to have. I remember working with a client when I was at Panagram, and I remember sitting with this client in their space with the C suite and the controller, and one of them said, the struggles we're having is that we're so busy, and we're growing so fast, we don't look out the window, we looked at our desk, and we need to start looking out the window. What is next? How can I think that this is very common, especially in the design field in in house design teams, we are so focused on making sure that day to day is done. And the campaign or the credit piece we're working on is perfect. It can be difficult to look forward and say well, where are we going to be as a team in one year? Or where are we going to be in three years? 

All these sorts of challenges are things that I began to ask these questions and help the team start to figure out what does this look like? How can we forecast how technology will impact this in a year? Or in three years? How can we forecast how we think the design system should be shifting or changing in a year? Three years? 

 

Robert Berkeley  33:33 

So you know reacting you're you're actually setting the the agenda there? How big How big a department is it now how big is the In House Agency at FabFitFun? 

 

JR Curley  33:41
You know, it's about the same? So we're still in the 40s? For the overarching team start for low 40s, Mid mid 40s? Yeah.

 

Robert Berkeley  33:50
Do you have people whose sole job it is to look at process? I mean, how does that happen in reality now? Is that your job? Are you for you? Or do you have people who do that? Or is it something that's ongoing? Or do you do periodically come to it? 

 

JR Curley  34:03
It is ongoing. So we make sure that we baked in process into again, I say this a lot but kind of into our day to day in our DNA. So it doesn't matter what department you are, even if you're the director of photo in at FabFitFun, you're going to constantly be thinking about process in the back of your mind. Is there just a better faster way for us to do this? Is there a more efficient way for us to do this? 

 

Robert Berkeley  34:23
What other aspects have have been significant in your in your ongoing development then within fabric? 

 

JR Curley  34:30 
So personally, I think a really interesting thing is is really communication but also a voice of the member voice of the customer and listening to our members and people. I will say this a sign that was a little bit different. And my previous companies because we really were speaking with clients or hearing from our internal clients, we didn't necessarily have a direct contact all the time to our actual members or specific clients. And so what's interesting is FabFitFun is a we have members kind of across the globe, but primarily North America 

and they will engage with us on a daily basis, we one great thing about FabFitFun Is it truly is kind of your best friend in a way, where we even have our own community that's FabFitFun, where members can go and talk to other members. And they can talk directly to us, we engage with them every day. That's a very different approach and lots of companies. This isn't social listening, this is actual one to one communication, having conversations and with that, that has been a really interesting learning experience for me. But it also just demonstrates the power of communication, not just with your members or clients, but also inside of a company being open to have conversations. And I think that that has been one of my biggest learnings is making sure conversations are to the point, they are very clear, in that we're all trying to work to get to the same place together. And if we're not sure if that's the case, we validate that and make sure it is so I'd say that's one of the biggest shifts we've I've seen.  

 

Robert Berkeley  35:55 
Well, he certainly been challenged there, because you've got there September 2019. And obviously, from March 2020, things change dramatically when it comes to being able to easily communicate with your co workers obviously had to work hard to enable that communication to continue, right. And especially because you know, you weren't six months into the job when all that kicked off. 

 

JR Curley  36:15 
Yes, it was a big shift. But with, but with I think so it's interesting, it's a good call out, as I mentioned before, and I suggest this to many people, the first couple of months was really listening to understanding the DNA of the company and seeing what was happening. As with all companies and I joked earlier, the only constant is change, there was change at FabFitFun. And that change include me moving into the role to lead the brand marketing slash creative and content team. And with that didn't necessarily come a shift in approach. But what it did open up was a bit more communication between several members of the overarching 

company. Now, I will say though, one great thing is that, for any change that comes I always say change brings opportunity. And with that came some really interesting opportunities for us to shift our approach and communicate a little bit differently with our internal members, external members. But also things are really going in the right direction. And I think I was lucky enough really just to help it get to where it needed to be. And I think that that was another piece of that shift was a company was is growing, with many companies versus some of these other companies I worked at previously, which were very established, these are codes been around for 100 years, in fact, that fund is is only I think a decade old and still growing. And with that, we're constantly going to change and evolve. And I would say that was more of an evolution to our next phase, better understanding of what the company most likely needed at the time and still needs as we move forward. And I would not be surprised. I'm sure we'll have continued evolution and see more changes down the road. But that to me is healthy. 

 

Robert Berkeley  37:53 
Reinvention as a result. I mean, we've seen it all of course with with social media, which I know is a big driver for FabFitFun. And, well by all accounts, we're going to see it again as people start dawning. It's a 

 

JR Curley  38:06

Yes, the metaverse. 

 

Robert Berkeley  38:07

tapping break breaks to their faces. Who knows I'm sure you guys are all are all testing that out to see you know what, know how or if that's going to impact you, right? 

 

JR Curley  38:15  

The Metaverse in NFTS Etherium is it's all out there and I think we're seeing companies that traditionally wouldn't lean into those spaces now exploring those spaces. randomly. I was talking to someone about this last night about Metaverse and that VR space in recalling the good old days of Second Life, and experiments and failures that businesses and success successes had trying to move into that virtual space. I think all this is going to be very interesting. I think, again, as you as we talk about growth and education and knowledge. This this is a space where it really pays to be a nerd and really interested in this sort of stuff. And really dig into these things. Because for better for worse. Over time, as we move into this technical technology base age, the fastest shifts still continue to be technology. And that all is a different place that a lot of people look into. And with that technology shift, it can be difficult to maintain knowledge and keep up while especially as a creative you're trying to follow design trends and design knowledge. But they are absolutely hand in hand and are going to create incredible shifts in how we experience brands and how we experience even each other, which can be frightening. However, if you dig into it and have the knowledge and help craft your own path that makes it more enticing. 

 

Robert Berkeley  39:41 
So just one more thing, JR. The question I always like to ask is whether or not your your your company is mandated to use the creative and content team when it comes to design work. And when it comes to creative work? 

 

JR Curley  39:55 
Fantastic question. Fantastic question and I've experienced this on both realms. So I've definitely 

bit of businesses were Yes, an absolute mandate to help manage that in where we've had to use internal resources. And that that is all you can do. FabFitFun is not like that we can team and partner with any agency we want to in anyone our company could reach out and work with any agency and finance that they want to. What's fascinating, though, is that that ask only comes if we as a creative team are unable to supply with them whatever niche asked they have, if you have a team that does have to have that mandate, it's always good to figure out why what is driving that mandate? Is that a team restriction that's based off the team itself, either in terms of what it can output, or the headcount it has? Or timing? Or is that something because they're just individuals in the company who aren't aware of the skill sets ability that internal team has? 

 

Robert Berkeley  40:52 
Well, I can ask you so much more JR. But thanks so much for joining us. We learned about process, always looking for a better, faster way, we learned about the benefits of not being mandated, which which is interesting to me, because I hear those sides of that argument quite a lot. And I just really want to thank you so much for for joining us. 

 

JR Curley  41:11 

No, the pleasure is mine. And thank you again so much for having me. It's been wonderful to reconnect there for all this time. And so, so much of a joy to be on there. So thank you so much for having me.

 

Robert Berkeley  41:22  

Well, it's an honour having you on board. And I also want to thank Emily foster of our esteemed partners IHAFand my producer Amy MacNamara for making all these things happen and printer and the team and EKCS for handling the podcast editing so elegantly. Now, if this is your first episode of Inside Jobs, could you believe that's even possible JR. But people haven't heard this podcast before. Then a very warm welcome. And you aren't somewhat late to the party, though. I think we're midway through the 30s. Now with the episodes and you can go to ijpodcast.com. You can find the full back catalogue there, including the most popular episode of last year, which which we announced to be Harriet Tolbert from the IMF, who liked you also travelled all over the world, JR as well and, and drew upon those experiences, and does continue to do so at the IMF, which you can imagine is a very eclectic range of clients as well. Literally every country so anyway, you can also go to ijpodcast.com  And Subscribe to our newsletter, and also while you're there, just look me up and say Hi on LinkedIn.  

Till next time.