TRANSCRIPT
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Robert Berkeley
Hello, I'm Robert Berkeley, and Welcome back to Inside Jobs, the podcast where we delve into the world of in-house agencies and the creative minds that form them and shape them. Inside Jobs is brought to you by IHAF, The In-House Agency Forum, and EKCS, who enable these in-house agencies to perform at their very best. Now, today I am thrilled to have a fabulous guest Kristine Kobe, vice president at Liquid Sunshine, the in-house agency for Keurig Dr Pepper. Hi, Kristine, you're based in Chicago. Is that right?
Kristine Kobe
Yes, I am. Hello, thank you for having me.
Robert Berkeley
It's an absolute pleasure. Now, Kristine, I happen to understand you have a trophy cabinet that could probably be described as groaning under the weight of the various accolades and awards. Am I right?
Kristine Kobe
Yes, I've won a few awards along the way, or been part of teams that have won awards along the way, including Ken Grand Prix, and even a in-house agency of the year.
Robert Berkeley
Ah, okay, let's find out how you did it. But before we do that, let's kick off with where you are at liquid sunshine. Tell us a little bit about that and what your role is there?
Kristine Kobe
Yeah, so I joined Liquid Sunshine or came to KDP about a year and a half ago. So Liquid Sunshine came to be over the years in 2018, Green Mountain Keurig and Dr Pepper Snapple group came together to form what is KDP, our Keurig Dr Pepper today. And part of that merger there were a lot of different creative entities within the organisation. Everything from our design team and Vermont that was part of Green Mountain to our legacy, Dr Pepper Snapple Group from a design production perspective, and even by which was an acquisition, I had a full in-house capabilities in terms of production. And so bringing all these entities together is why we formed liquid sunshine, which the name harkens back to an old Dr Pepper ad. and I think it's very fitting from whether you're drinking coffee or a soda, it really is liquid sunshine. And so over the last couple years, we've expanded our capabilities to include campaign and content, which includes everything from producing social content to videos, we work with a lot of celebrities, and we handle packaging, really all through the line is Liquid Sunshine, our capabilities, and we have over 125 brands, and we touch every single brand every year. It's pretty phenomenal.
Robert Berkeley
That is absolutely amazing. Well, I really want to find out more about that. Because then the brands cross markets and categories and all sorts and yeah, you almost got like, how big is it? How big is the in-house team?
Kristine Kobe
So we're currently seventy five people between we have two headquarters, we've got a Frisco, Texas, which happens to be where a lot of the soda and the stills and are produced out of and then you've got our Burlington, Massachusetts headquarters, which is where Keurig and a lot of our coffee comes out of and so between the two headquarters, and a few legacy people in other kind of remote locations, we've got about 75 and growing.
Robert Berkeley
How many brands did you say?
Kristine Kobe
125 brands, we touched one way or another.
Robert Berkeley 3:27
Each person supports two brands. And for someone like that doesn't? I'm sure we have a better system than that.
Kristine Kobe
Yeah.
Robert Berkeley
So, let's go back, and then we will come back and dig in a little bit more. So you're from Chicago originally? Is that right?
Kristine Kobe
Yes, yes. I'm from Chicago but spend a lot of my time in Frisco, Texas. That's where the lion's share of our team is. And then in split my time also with Burlington.
Robert Berkeley
Right, okay. Well, the Apple hasn't rolled far from the tree, though. You're still in Chicago right now. But in the time since you were growing up there. And now you did start out working with agencies, is that right?
Kristine Kobe
I did.
Robert Berkeley
So What was your kind of introduction to agencies or your creative or your current management or what?
Kristine Kobe
Yeah, actually going way back. Initially, out of college, I started in media. So I spent about a year old school where you had printouts of media buys, and I would have to manually mark where we needed to make good. That was way before where we are today, technology-wise. So I did that about a year and a half ago or a little over a year, and really was craving to get closer to the creative. And so that's when I made a pivot to account management. I love the merging of that business, understanding the business challenges and then using creativity solve those problems. And so spent many years in advertising agencies, everything from FCB where I had the opportunity to work on brands like SC Johnson, at the time launching a couple new products like ours, which you might be familiar with in the UK, big UK brand, as well as then working on Sharpie and launching their campaign in California what's inside. Made changes to event and then pivoting to other agencies like Leo Burnett, where I had a chance to work on Kellogg's. And then Digitise where I spent a number of years, not just collecting awards, but also working on brands like Whirlpool, KitchenAid, Maytag, and Jenn Air.
Robert Berkeley
Okay.
Kristine Kobe
Yeah, and then from there is kind of where I had the opportunity to build a team, and agency team approve us as part of one team. And for Jenn Air, and really, that's where, like my passion of building teams.
Robert Berkeley
Okay, so up to that point, you've done a little bit of media buying, and you're an account manager, account director. What on earth would you know about how to build a creative team for a single brand? So tell us about that, how that happened? And how you kind of sat there on day one with it with a blank spreadsheet in front of you and scratched your head? And where you went from there?
Kristine Kobe
Yeah, so when you're in an agency, it's all about the team, I really, I take pride in winning awards, because it's no one person that wins the award. It's a full team and the work of a full team. So that you having worked on a very large teams and learning from some of the best people, some of the best managers and working alongside others. That's where I really learned a lot about building teams. And so with the Jenn Air business, and having that opportunity to build a bespoke agency team, which we call ourselves Dark Horse, for Jenn Air, that was really where I fell in love with building teams and finding that magic of bringing the right people together to create something amazing. And it's really all about the synergies of how people are working together, and that culture and all working towards the same goal. And so that's really kind of where my passion comes in. And something that is a priority for me anytime I'm building a new agency team or in-house team is really about pausing thinking about the kind of culture that we need to build, and how does that fit with the rest of the organisation or with a client. And then what are the goals that we all need to achieve together being really clear on that.
Robert Berkeley
So when you were taking those baby steps on that first team that you built? Did you have a vision for how it was going to look and how people were going to interact? And how the flow was going to happen? And all the nuts and bolts of that? Or was it? Did you have like a budget to say yeah, we're going to do this or thing? Or did you kind of have to grow it and prove it and grow it and free and trim and whatever?
Kristine Kobe
Yeah, so it was we knew what we needed to achieve. So you we built with a foundational team. And that's how the teams that I've built today has always been you've got your foundational team.
Robert Berkeley
Yeah, what's in the foundational team?
Kristine Kobe
Yeah, foundational team would be your strategist or strategy team, your creative team, as well as in some cases, it depends you might need media to be a part of that. And then your studio team so thinking about your production and your producer and working really closely with them and then your account and project management team. So kind of those four to five key players media kind of depending on what the need is. It's important to stay really close to your media partners because I think there's magic when creative and media work closely together. So that's kind of foundationally what we and what I have left to build when I'm building an agency team and then from there building up and scaling and always leaving room for that flexibility if you need to bring in additional expertise to kind of help in certain areas or things that might come up
Robert Berkeley
What did you discover was important to keep on the payroll with an in-house team then because some things aren't important to keep on the payroll. You don't build the cars that drove them to the office for example that's not on the payroll but somewhere there's a cut off. What are the key? What defines what's important to have on the payroll it when you're creating this foundation team?
Kristine Kobe
Yeah, what it really all goes back to the goals and objectives of why you need the team and what the team needs to accomplish will really determine the foundation of the people that you need to have on the team. And I think in from my experience a lot of having a really strong account person to lead the business, I'm biassed, obviously having been a former account person, but then having that creative team and your strategist is like your absolute foundation and I think that there's magic when you can get those people working really closely together and having them mashing and gelling and working real-time and having a bit of that entrepreneurial spirit and taking real ownership of this I'm and so at its base level, even when I built small teams for Bell brands we handled we built a small social team it was your writer, slash community manager, an art director, and then an account person and strategy like it that was the core and the foundation and they rocked it.
Robert Berkeley
That’s almost like what the minimal viable product there. Isn't that little trio?
Kristine Kobe
Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right.
Robert Berkeley
Well, it's a little trio's is one thing, but I suspect Molson Coors wasn't a little minimum viable product when you built the team there. Can you tell us about that?
Kristine Kobe
Yeah, so that was, um, so I joined the company, Oliver, which builds bespoke in-house advertising agencies. And they had just recently signed a contract with Molson Coors, and Molson Coors was looking to build an in-house team to handle their social and digital, with the goal of moving at the speed of culture. And I think they're exactly right. I can't say enough about the power of having an in-house team handling your social and digital and being able to move quickly. All that said, it was day three on the job, and we got a email saying, Hey, we're gonna go home for two weeks, it was March 2020, go home for two weeks, it was me and two other hires. And we had to build this thing. So it was an interesting time to build this in-house agency. And really, we start from with all the way you really start from ground zero, and you assess exactly what I was saying the needs of the business, what are our goals, what are our objectives, and you build out, the staff plan to meet that. And so it was a lot of Zoom calls, a lot of time on Zoom, really trying to dive into the business, understand their needs, and then doing a lot of online hiring and building it up and and leaving. I really believe in having that flexibility so that you can scale up where needed, or pull back, especially in an environment like building a team during COVID or during the pandemic. And so we started like, with like the foundations, and that was also key, we didn't just jump into all 36 brands out of the gate. We started with a couple and then we slowly rolled taking on more and more responsibilities.
Robert Berkeley
Well, two really interesting things there. There's a lot of interesting things there. But one is you building a culture you said is really important that sounded like your number one priority is to get the culture right.
Kristine Kobe
Yes.
Robert Berkeley
Then I'm not saying everything will follow but you're in a good place. You're in a very strong place. But you're trying to build a culture via Zoom, which there's no water cooler in Zoom, no matter how much anyone would like to up there is. So that challenge itself fascinates me. Have you gotta short answer for how you did you do that with intention? Or is it just your style?
Kristine Kobe
Yeah, no intention. You've got to imagine. 20-30 people all starting all over the country. No one knows anybody. So how do you drive that connection, and the way that we did it a number of ways. One, we started out with a morning team meeting “a Hello, how's everybody doing?” Just checking in talking about. We'd spend 15 minutes to talk about what we need to tackle for the day. So everybody was clear, because you couldn't just do a desk drive by or quickly check in with people throughout the day, that would have been a lot to try and coordinate. So we just had that morning check in we also and that was every single day. And then we were intentional and had a monthly team meeting. And one of the things that we introduced absolutely loved this two things. One was, we would share personal profiles and kudos to Molson Coors they do this, they call it a river of life, just sharing a little bit about you and how you came to your career path. So we did the same thing. And we would highlight three to four people a month, and people would share their stories and pictures, which really helps break down kind of that virtual wall and get to know each other as humans, not just as co-workers. And then the other piece that Matt Fish on our ECD introduced was something called Walk and Talk. So we would every month we would switch up who your Walk and Talk buddy was, but you would get on your phone, old school phone off, zooms away from the desk away from the computer, and call each other for like 30 minutes, just walk and talk. Yeah, get outside and get fresh air. It was a brilliant idea. It was awkward and fun all at the same time. It was little things like that, where we were really intentional about building those connections in the virtual environment that we have.
Robert Berkeley
So let's talk about where you are right now. I think first of all, let's talk about the brands you've got.
Kristine Kobe
Yeah.
Robert Berkeley
It’s a big number. But it's not just the number of brands it's the markets in which they operate. So this is this is quite a job. I've got to ask how on earth do you approach it? You've got I mean, just 70 people, that's a lot of people but you've got almost double the number of brands, you're working in different markets as I keep saying This is quite a pretty unique challenge. Kristine, can you kind of fill me in on how you actually get everyone's minds around this?
Kristine Kobe
Yeah, yeah 125 brands. Everything from coffee pods to coffee machines and systems with Keurig to water, juices, soda across the board. Plus, let's not forget Matzah, beloved, applesauce, apple juice pouches brand that we have. So yeah, we've got a very big portfolio of brands. One of the things that we did when I first came on board was restructure because no one can be an expert on 125 Brands absolutely, I like
Robert Berkeley
Is that kind of wet was everyone a generalist then when you got there?
Kristine Kobe
We were all a generalist. Yeah. So it was kind of as the work came in, it was jump ball, who was free, who was available, which is hard, it's really hard to build those connections with your brand partners, and really understand the business.
Robert Berkeley
And it affects the output as well. Doesn’t it?
Kristine Kobe
Exactly. So what we did is, we restructured the forum pods. So our dedicated team, so you and we aligned ourselves to the business. So the way that KDP is structured is by category. So you've got stills, which includes your waters and juices, your carbonated soft drinks, which includes your sodas, and then hot our coffee, which includes your systems and our actual coffee, and then our warehouse direct, which includes like mots and Mr. Mrs. T's, roses, all those brands. So we we then structured our team to align to these categories. And so you had a dedicated account person, we've got a dedicated project manager, we have a dozen dedicated design and dedicated creative teams so that these people can become experts in the business. Now, behind these dedicated teams are lots and lots of resources.
Robert Berkeley
Shared resource.
Kristine Kobe
Yep, exactly. But the idea being you at least have a couple of people that are living and breathing the brand that can become experts, can talk business with the brand.
Robert Berkeley
Can contribute ideas? By the way, when you collected the brands into these pods? Was it a very easy task? It was kind of obvious, or was it kind of this is obvious, this is obvious, this is obvious? And oh, there's a whole bunch of miscellaneous ones. Let's put those together. How did that work out?
Kristine Kobe
Yeah, it was pretty much a given. Also, it was something that I had done at Molson Coors too, where we built dedicated teams based on the categories. And we saw great success with that. And so we did the same thing. And one of the challenges when I came to KDP, was that the agency Liquid Sunshine was operating very separate from the organisation in a way it felt transactional.
Robert Berkeley
What do you mean? Yeah, so tell me more about that. So give me a sense of how you recognise that? What were the signs that you saw?
Kristine Kobe
Yeah. So I was feedback that I received. So when I came on board, I met with all the brand partners, I met with all the agency partners. And the thing that I heard a lot about is Liquid Sunshine feels separate from the organisation.
Robert Berkeley
This is from marketing we're observing this.
Kristine Kobe
Yeah.
Robert Berkeley
And from the Liquid Sunshine team as well. Both perspectives.
Kristine Kobe
Yeah, both perspectives, we don't feel part of KDP. And the brand side did not feel like the agency was part of KDP as well. So that was job number one. And then even within Liquid Sunshine, we felt siloed based on our locations that we were at. And so that really came loud and clear in interviews and talking with everybody, I met with every single employee, all the brand marketing, to really understand kind of the challenges we needed to tackle. And so part of that really drove the need to create these dedicated teams, so that you had your person you were driving that connection, and you were able to feel like, “Okay, we are one team together that are going to tackle these challenges together and really bring everybody closer.” There are other things that we did. But in terms of the business and making us feel like one team, those are some of the things that we implemented.
Robert Berkeley
Yeah. You mentioned ownership a few times you mentioned earlier on as well. And I think many people would recognise that having someone to actually own this baby, and make it as good as they possibly can. And really feel strongly about how that is dealt with afterwards is always a challenge. And I see how you approach that by making the pods and then you've got a face and you've got an investment. You've got personal investment in some marketer's ambitions. Would that be a fair way of putting it?
Kristine Kobe
Ah 100 present. Yeah, definitely.
Robert Berkeley
By the way, is the in-house agency mandated or, do you have to work or do you find your brands go out? and work with other agencies that you feel may be added or they feel maybe a bit more creative or a bit more of this, that, and the other insight.
Kristine Kobe
Yeah, that is a great question. So we do KDP work with external agencies. Some of our partners include Havas and Deutsche that said, those are we work with them on some of the larger brands like a Dr Pepper and Keurig. But there are brands of which we are AOR. So we handle everything through the line. So yeah, we are AOR for a number of brands.
Robert Berkeley
By the way, are you officially AOR? Did you bid for that? And when it? or Is there another reason that you came about and into that situation?
Kristine Kobe
Yeah, those brands were given to the in-house agency and designated as priority brands to be handled, some of that driven by financials, and also the need for speed and kind of like the kind of work that needs to be done. And then there are some times though, where this happened when I first started, where there might be a new big packaging redesign that needs to happen. And the brand comes to me and says, “Hey, we'd like to go out of house not do handle this in-house.” And that's okay. And there was a situation where I said, “We are in a rebuilding page as part of our story. We don't have the capabilities, I don't think we're ready to take on this assignment.” And that's okay. And so, sometimes those conversations happen with brands, or we're just honest with each other. I'm part of the marketing leadership team. So all of the category leads sit on that as well.
Robert Berkeley
That’s very significant that you're on the marketing leadership team as well. Right?
Kristine Kobe
Yes, yes.
Robert Berkeley
Because without that, it would be hard for you to have those grown-up conversations too.
Kristine Kobe
Exactly, yeah, yeah. So transparency and honesty, we believe in the HPT philosophy (High Performing Teams) which is having those honest conversations with each other. And so there are times where we say, “We can't handle this.” and that's okay. But we do try, especially when it comes to design and packaging, to keep a lot of that in-house just, again, like speed that knowing the brand inside and out and efficiencies. It's better to keep that in-house.
Robert Berkeley
Let's talk a little bit more about that as well. I mean, there are clearly benefits to in housing in-house creativity. And your testament you've seen both sides. But can you, Is there a project you can think of that really almost couldn't have happened without an in-house team? It couldn't have been pulled off successfully without that team being in-house.
Kristine Kobe
Yeah, what I have seen as success, not only at Molson Coors but here in other places is, in particularly when we talk about core and buy, we're on AOR. When we go into a production, we are thinking through the line, we are thinking, what is that retail promotion? And what's a key visual need to look like we're thinking about our digital shelf? And what is that? How's the brand going to show up? What is the visuals going to look like? We're thinking about promotion. So we just recently shot some, some work out in LA, for one of our brands and a celebrity. And we were able to piggyback a second production for a promotional with the same director for a upcoming summer promotion. So we are able to be a lot more efficient and nimble because it's just us that is working on the brand and thinking about it through the line and also business.
Robert Berkeley
You're covering a lot of ground.
Kristine Kobe
Yeah, where there were definitely times that Molson Coors, we would work with external agencies, and we just handled social and digital and it took a little bit to kind of figure out the groove of working with an external agency as an in-house. I took bumps along the way. But then I mean, we found a groove, we kind of established rules of engagement and getting in further upstream, to make sure that we were able to like capture everything we needed upfront when we are going into a big production and having better visibility. So that as we develop, like social and digital assets we know. I'm seeing on this side, when you have it all in-house, for a brand and you're able to really run it through the line. You're just so much more efficient, and really able to think 360 on the programs in terms of the kind of content that you need to develop.
Robert Berkeley
Right, right. Absolutely. You mentioned social a few times. It's almost like you feel social is a key skill that an in-house agency has that maybe it is difficult to outsource.
Kristine Kobe
Yes, yes. The power of bringing social in-house is undeniable the results we saw when we were at Molson Coors were really amazing. Your ability to move quickly. You have that trust with the brands and with legal and the organisation, you know what you're living and breathing out, you're a part of that organisation, you are able to just jump on things. And the world moves so quickly. Tt's one of I think our challenges as marketers is, how do you stay relevant when things are coming at you and moving quickly, and our consumers are on to the next thing before you know it. So how do you stay culturally relevant, you got to stay on top of it. And that is something that a KDP, we're building out kind of that capability to move a lot faster and to be closer brands and our content producers. So it is powerful when it works, our ECD helped build the social centre of excellence at Coke. So he's also seen the power of it as well. And so we're we're big believers and advocates of bringing social and your digital in-house.
Robert Berkeley
And you validate that approach as well, evidently, with the success you've had. You've even won awards, I think you won, was it the simply lemonade campaign?
Kristine Kobe
Yes. Of course, they want to AFI.
Robert Berkeley
So in-house agencies don't often go in for these awards. It is possible then, is it?
Kristine Kobe
Yes. Yes, it is. It is. And I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, I'm a huge advocate for awards, I think that they represent teamwork. No one person wins the award. And it is a celebration of all the hard work that goes into developing whether it's social content or a big campaign. It is well awards are special and and should be celebrated by everybody not just creatives.
Robert Berkeley
Yeah, Just a couple more things. Actually, Kristine, I want to ask you. You've been doing this a few years, by the sound of things. What are the current trends you're seeing? And what would you say to someone who's perhaps listening this podcast, that wants your job, that wants to do what you're doing. And once we're able to achieve the things you've done or even beyond. What are if they're coming into it now, maybe from an agency, they're coming into in-housing? What are the things they should be looking for, and being prepared for?
Kristine Kobe
I think that the number one piece act of this my role, and the thing that I tell my team is my job is to enable and empower you to do your job. And whether that's taking a block or is bringing in the resources, the extra help, I really take in spend a lot of time and investing in the people. People are the ones doing the work, developing the content, producing everything. It is so important to spend that time to get to know everybody to understand strengths, weaknesses, and to really just be able to empower them to do their job. I really believe that's the number one. And it's also why I spent talk a lot about culture and this podcast because you spent so much of your life at work. And it's important that you feel that you're part of something and that you understand your purpose. And why are you there. I spent a short time at Deloitte helping builders studio in Chicago. And one of the things that I love about Deloitte that I really took away such a great company, was to talk a lot about what do what gives you energy. And I really believe that and I say that a lot to my team. So you might be really good at like I could probably still be a consultant today. It was good. I enjoyed it. But it didn't give me energy, it doesn't give me the same energy that I feel when I am talking about creative or building teams or, you know, working with brands. And so I really believe in the power of to doing what gives you energy and I tell the team, we have so many talented people at Liquid Sunshine. Some of our production artists are like phenomenal designers. And I've said do you want to join the design team? Do you want to stay in production and making sure that we're tapping into the our people in the right way and that they're doing what gives them energy. And so I'd say the number one job of this role when you're running an in-house team is making sure that you are getting to know your people and taking care of them and empowering them to be successful.
Robert Berkeley
Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's um, I often think, do you ever see Kurt the sport of curling that's very popular in Scotland?
Kristine Kobe
Oh, yeah.
Robert Berkeley
So you've got a skilled person with a very big stone with a handle, and they're pushing it across the ice, but there's someone who is also very important, who's standing in front with a big broom, and then they're cleaning the way for the stone to go. And I often feel that if I'm doing my job properly, I'm the guy with the broom. And they're essentially clearing the way for the skilled person to achieve what they're going to do. I had another friend years ago who simply said a good manager just learns when to get out of the way either way.
Kristine Kobe
Yeah.
Robert Berkeley
It's about letting these incredibly talent who are far more capable than I'll ever be, do the things they just love doing and do so brilliantly.
Kristine Kobe
Yeah.
Robert Berkeley
Well, you obviously love your job, but your job is not your only job. Right, Kristine. You've mentioned all your flying around, you've got a family. How on earth do you manage all that?
Kristine Kobe
Yes, I do. I've got a five-year-old and seven-year-old and a old dog, old deaf dog.
Robert Berkeley
I don’t want to talk about your husband.
Kristine Kobe
Right, Exactly. It's definitely a lot of juggling and balancing of schedules on the regular. But family is extremely important to me. And so I do prioritise being there when I can. And as much as I can, those Christmas concerts, they have spring concerts. We've got conferences next week. So I will be in Chicago next week.
Robert Berkeley
I’m ambushing at Christmas time Planes, Trains, and Automobiles scenario with you trying to get back from, was it Dallas? or wherever it was you said.
Kristine Kobe
Yeah. Dallasor Massachusetts. Yeah.
Robert Berkeley
Right, exactly. Well, Kristine, it's been absolutely fabulous. I feel we've only scratched the surface of what is ongoing, an incredible career.
Kristine Kobe
Thank you.
Robert Berkeley
And It really looks and sounds like you've only just started really so goodness me where this is gonna go to next. So thanks so much for your experience that you're sharing it. It's so valuable for everybody and may you prosper within Keurig Dr Pepper and I'm sure the influence you have I've seen you speaking as well at various conferences, and you're very good values. If anyone sees you on the bill. Are you speaking at anything coming up soon?
Kristine Kobe
Nothing in the immediate future.
Robert Berkeley
Need to get your agent onto that one.
Kristine Kobe
Yeah, right.
Robert Berkeley
And so dear listener of Inside Jobs, I hope you found inspiration and very valuable takeaways I'm sure you did from Kristine’s reflections there. Our aim is to help you understand agency leaders, how they got there, and listen to some of the stories they have about how they achieve what they do. If you would enjoy today's episode. Do subscribe and please leave a review. Leaving a review gets us fantastic guests like Kristine. And of course the feedback helps me improve helps us improve what we do and make the show more interesting, engaging and hopefully enjoyable as well. There'll be more episodes coming up. But there's a bit of a flurry coming up after a bit of a hiatus. And we're going to meet some fascinating new guests in the near future. In the meantime, IJpodcast.com is where you need to go to listen to any one of the 40 going on 50 episodes. So keep pushing the boundaries of creativity. Kristine, thank you so much for joining us
Kristine Kobe
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Robert Berkeley
It's absolutely our pleasure, and we'll see you next time.