TRANSCRIPT
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Robert Berkeley 0:03
Hello, and thank you once again for listening to Inside Jobs, the podcast that unveils the stories behind in-house agency leadership. I'm Robert Berkeley, your host. And today we have a truly inspiring guest with us. Angel Maldonado from Yelp. Now Angel's journey from the streets of East New York to the dynamic world of advertising is a remarkable testament to the transformative power of mentorship and hard work together with our partners that I have the leading association for in-house agencies and EKCS, the content production partner to corporate creative teams, I'm thrilled to bring you this particular conversation. And in fact, he's right here. Let's get to it, Angel. Welcome to Inside Jobs.
Angel Maldonado
Hi, Robert, thanks for having me.
Robert Berkeley
What is your current role at Yelp and just tell us for that, for that one person who doesn't know what Yelp is somewhere, just explain what Yelp is. and your role.
Angel Maldonado
Absolutely, the director of creative marketing at Yelp. It's our in-house agency that handles all marketing, communications for Yelp. Yelp is a platform for reviews. But it's much more than that people usually know it as for restaurant reviews, but actually, we have a really huge and growing services, Home Services section, that we have as well. So you can go there, place reviews about companies, as well as find services for your home, for your business and in your area.
Robert Berkeley
So let's start from the beginning Angel.
Angel Maldonado
Absolutely. I'm a first generation of family coming in from Puerto Rico. And we moved into East New York, Brooklyn, that's where I grew up, born and raised in Brooklyn, New York, during the 80s, and 90s, which was the peak of the drug epidemic, basically in the country, but specifically ground zero was Brooklyn, East New York, where I grew up. So it was definitely a challenging time. But it's something that if you in my mind, embrace your failures and tough times, and you find beauty in the struggle, you can actually utilise that to you know, progress to something different, and
Robert Berkeley
So how did how did that affect you personally then living there growing up as a small child, Angel?
Angel Maldonado
Yeah, it's really interesting. We were the only Puerto Rican family in minority area, which was mostly West, Indian and African. And so we already stuck out in a very tough area to begin with. So you learn really early on to have a thick skin and kind of just find where you're going really quickly. And kind of utilise those people's skills and as well as learning the common sense rules of the world of how you get around and survive. So you've really learned really early on how to survive and how to find your niches that really help you. So either you go into what you're brought up in, which is a really tough area, or you come out of it by finding your, your mentors and your areas for growth.
Robert Berkeley
Yeah, but you're from a big family as well. Is that right?
Angel Maldonado
Yes, a strong family unit is where to start with grown up in a really poor area. Most of my parents work. So we were latchkey kids. And because of that, you know, we got into some mischief. And we learned a lot of lessons. But our family was really strong on trying to put us on the right path. So there was a lot of regimented, growing up. So almost a military lifestyle, even though my family wasn't in the military, somehow they found all the rules for the military lifestyle. So you know, everyday we had a regimen to do and it was really, really tough growing up under the under that kind of Iron Fist rule.
Robert Berkeley
Is this kept you out of trouble was that the thinking?
Angel Maldonado
100%.
Robert Berkeley 3:38
And did they succeed?
Angel Maldonado 3:40
You know, varying degrees, when you growing up in an area like that. Most people don't make it out. And so we have a, you know, a very large group of network of friends and families, if you live live somewhere for 2030 years. And out of there, you find two or three households that actually made it out of that area. We were one of the lucky ones. School was a really safe haven. For me, I grew up in East New York. And over there, I went to Thomas Jefferson High School. And if you look it up during that time, it's actually one of the most dangerous schools in the country, except for us, it was a safe haven because you knew everything you really felt like you went there, you went home. And so finding solace in places like that, even amongst all the chaos was key to really finding my way. So I was very fortunate to find some mentors, teachers, and guidance counsellors who saw something in me that were something worth investing in. And so they spent a lot of time with me keeping me out of trouble.
Robert Berkeley
What do you think they saw Angel?
Angel Maldonado
You know, they split the salt was genuinely good kid who was kind of lost, you come into a very scary area, and they can see that not only the fear, but the potential. So they saw the potential in me and I was really booksmart so I got really fortunate to be able to show that skills just through the everyday life. I wasn't one of these big studies, anything like that, that just happened to naturally be good at School. And with that
Robert Berkeley
Did you know you were smart at the time?
Angel Maldonado
I didn't. They did, though. And so you know, you don't really compare yourself to the other kids until you start getting a little bit more aware of why people giving you attention. So growing up, I didn't realise until I started getting opportunities, such as, you know, pre-scholarship applications, and free trips to see schools and do other things that were more educational getting into AP programmes. And then I started realising that I had something, and that they were trying to help me take advantage of it to get out of a situation. And that really worked out. And that was really set me off not only on the mentoring path that they gave me, but they gave me opportunities to apply for scholarships, and I was fortunate enough to get several Ivy League school scholarships, and paid for in full my education as an opportunity to get something that I could not my family could not afford otherwise.
Robert Berkeley
So when you say you went on to Ivy League scholarships, can you can you tell us a little bit what they were?
Angel Maldonado
Absolutely. I had, the main one I had was Cornell University. So I went up to Cornell. And remember, I'm a kid from Brooklyn and never left Brooklyn. So you know, the only grass that we knew was when it grew around abandoned buildings. And so when you go up to Cornell out of nowhere, and it's snowing, and the stream is frozen over the first weekend in October, and this, all these trees and mass acreage, scared the heck out of me, Robert, so I came back down, I was like, I cannot do that cannot leave. So I want to go into NYU. And luckily, I was over there and had a really great scholarship and started out in early education. It wasn't something that I
Robert Berkeley
What were you studying? What was what was the I mean, I don't know how old you are at the time, but I'm guessing you're studying working for a degree at this point?
Angel Maldonado
Absolutely. I thought about law, I always loved law did a lot of mock trials. And really, I love the analytical nature of finding arguments and facts and trying to win people over with those things. But for NYU, they gave me off me a scholarship in early education. And so that sent me on a path of again, this mentorship kind of thing was kind of a running theme throughout my life. And so I went there for a year, had some great experiences. But I gotta tell you, Robert, a kid from Brooklyn, going into the big city, I was not prepared, and they prepared me to pass those tests, they didn't prepare me to be alone without them there. So I kind of lost my way a little bit in the first year of my scholarship and wind up dropping out of school.
Robert Berkeley
Oh, what happened then?
Angel Maldonado 7:21
You know, just between not going to class and starting to failing, I had to go find my way, another way, you know, being a poor family, you just can't sit at home and do nothing. So I had to go find a job. And what I had to do is, I started doing construction. And you know, so I learned a lot of life skills of going into again, bad neighbourhoods doing a trade. And I realised this is not for me, I was not made to work with my hands. And so I wound up going back to school at night and got a psychology degree and went into becoming a social worker. So actually, my first official job, I spent a couple of years as a caseworker for battered women and children with my psychology degree.
Robert Berkeley
Goodness me, so that I'm sure was even for a kid from your background was pretty eye-opening, wasn't it?
Angel Maldonado
You know, that was one of the best lessons of my life. It really was what four or five years of understanding that people have trauma even greater than yours because you grew up in a really tough area. And you think, wow, it can't get any worse. And you see stories that are worse. And you know, everybody's trauma is relative. So, you know, something that, you know, I stopped telling my story to people, because I always felt like I was one upping their stories.
Robert Berkeley
You had nothing to say, right?
Angel Maldonado
And so, you know, it was something I started holding back on. And to be able to actually have a conversation with people who could understand and relate was really comforting to me and for them. And so they saw somebody who was able to relate to them as well, I just wasn't some casework coming out from another part of the New York that didn't understand the trauma they're going through. I believe that is the best way for me to actually go from psychology and understanding relationships and how to build those into advertising, which doesn't sound like it's a big leap. I mean, does it sound like is the natural leap? But it really was a perfect segue for me to get into operation.
Robert Berkeley
But seriously, this transition, how did it happen angel?
Angel Maldonado
I was fortunate enough, again, to have another mentor in my life who was working in one of the first digital advertising places in New York City called at that point, it was called Stein Rogen. And now it's Stein IAS, which is just an amazing company, but she was running the traffic department at that time. And again, she saw in me some potential to use my skills of people skills and my organisational skills to come in as a Traffic Manager.
Robert Berkeley
So, What made you so what was the transition, though? I mean, you're a social worker, and then you're doing you're working for an agency and there must have been a bit in the middle.
Angel Maldonado
You know, it was it was a pretty quick transition because after four or five years, it is really burnout work and I applaud all the social workers. It was really tough for a 20 something year old kid to be dealing with all of that. That pressure you know, everything from losing literally lives during my tenure there all the way to seeing people succeed. So great success stories, and also some tragedies. But burnout work, Robert. And so when I had the opportunity to transfer to another industry, I really jumped at it because it was just time.
Robert Berkeley
I'm totally understandable too. So this, this mentor, how did you meet this mentor, by the way?
Angel Maldonado
She was a family friend, she was actually the eldest sibling of a family friend. So we, she saw me growing up, and she was kind of on the outside of the friend circle. But she knew my family, she knew where we came from, and the kind of people we were. And so she wasn't afraid to give some kid from Brooklyn, New York, a chance at this pretty high profile job at a really fast place agency.
Robert Berkeley
Tell us about this first job and what your reflections were, when you, when you found yourself sitting at the computer, or whatever it was you were doing first day.
Angel Maldonado
You know, it's coming from where I grew up. And on top of that work in the social work in the in the field that I did with the battered women and children, it really puts everything into perspective. And so you go into this big agency, and everybody's running around like chicken without heads, and I just see the clarity and the chaos because they were treating this as life and death. And I'm like, Nope, I actually dealt with some of that. And so the transition was oddly serene. And because as people were a little chaotic, I was able to stay calm, because I can realise that this is not the end of the world and take it really seriously. Don't get me wrong, Robert, I really take all my work seriously, but I know what it means. And so I know there's no tomorrow.
Robert Berkeley
You have perspective.
Angel Maldonado
Exactly. And that's what my history has brought to the to, to help me advance in my career is that perspective.
Robert Berkeley
So you're not a creative by training? That's very evident. But you are the head of creative marketing. So was there a journey towards becoming creative along the way?
Angel Maldonado
Absolutely. You know, adversity, you know, you come out of those ashes in either stronger or hopefully stronger, I'll just leave it right there. So after a year, in Stein, Rogen, we were all getting laid off, because as with any advertising agency, you lose one client, and you got to lose people. And so my first time ever being unemployed, and again, young, but still impactful. And a week later, I had an opportunity to freelance at DDB New York, that was the best thing that happened to me.
Robert Berkeley
What exactly happened to you?
Angel Maldonado
So again, it's you know, I always try to, without even knowing it, I'm just, I'm always the same person in any situation. And I never let either my role or my title or even going out, make me a different person. And so I've met the person. And you're right, it didn't just happen to me, it happened, because of the circles I was running in. And, you know, in advertising, there's a big social network. And a lot of it obviously, is knowing people to get to places and hanging out with a lot of people in the industry. They learn to, why was we exchanged a lot of emails had a, you know, a lot of fun over drinks and understand who we were. And again, when they saw that I was unemployed for a week, they again trusted me to take advantage of an opportunity to help run ExxonMobil account as a project manager at DDB New York.
Robert Berkeley
So what were your what were your first lessons there, then?
Angel Maldonado
Again, knowing the being the calm in the storm of this very, very large agency of three or 400 people in in New York office at that point. And it was the height of really advertising. You know, this is not the madman days, but it really was money was flowing corner offices, the whole thing. And I met up with a creative director at that point, who had just corner office, and just seemed like an odd person. And he was just really calm, just like me walking around, and almost like we looked at each other. And we kind of smiled every time we saw each other like, this is not real, we're actually getting paid to do this. And people think this is really hard. And so we connected and he was, at that point, I didn't realise how much power he wielded. He was in charge of many accounts such as at that point, bank in New York, when it was a just a bank in New York before became Mellon. But he took a liking to me, he saw me again, as one of the people who was the calm in the storm. And he said, Whatever accounts I'm on this kid from East New York, Brooklyn is going to be my project manager. And we just grew our business there. And, you know, continue to hone my craft of not only project management, but then to your point about how do I become part of the creative team, and in the sense, it's being resourceful at that point, everything is a cost centre. And so if you can't get the dollars to do something, the agencies don't do it, because they just charge each other. It's that kind of model. And so I had so much work to get done specifically for the ExxonMobil account, that people would just go home and then I would be kind of on hook for deadlines were missing. So one day Robert, I told my studio manager I have 50 mechanicals to be made and if you guys don't do them, I'm gonna do them. He's like, You don't know court. At that point, It was court I'm sure my agent is point, Robert. I was like
Robert Berkeley
Oh, it's 2:12 on the clock. There's never been a better time. Go on.
Angel Maldonado 15:01
Exactly. So I told them just leave me a computer studio. And overnight I stood there to six o'clock in the morning, taught myself cork laid out 50 mechanicals. And when they came in in the morning, they all they had to do was fix them anything I messed up as far as you know, layout and type that I didn't have the design I at that time. So from that point on, I made sure I always had the latest software and just taught myself all the programs.
Robert Berkeley
Wow, that's a bit different from being creative, though.
Angel Maldonado 15:27
It is. That's true. But we always had this one of the things growing up, there's always been an art factor to, you know, our life from my father's side. So whether it's painting, whether it's juggling, making balloons, animals, all of those kinds of things, and I left one of those jobs out, I was part of a, my siblings and I were a traveling, juggling balloon making group for Circus party.
Robert Berkeley
How could we miss that out from your resume that scanned your LinkedIn profile, there's nothing there about being at basically one family traveling circus.
Angel Maldonado
Well, because that, you know, at my age, walking around with balloon animals is a little suspect. So I'd leave that part out unless it comes out in an organic conversation like this. So Art has always been a love of ours, whether it's literally physically making things, crafting things, painting things. So I always love that. And because I was advertising and since nobody outside of advertising understands what advertising is, everybody assumed growing up through this industry that I was an art director or copywriter. So they would always ask me to help them with logos were websites. And so you know, trying to be the true friend I was, I would help them with those things. And so I started teaching myself that craft as well.
Robert Berkeley
What are your folks thinking back home? Are they thinking, Yeah, this is this is just what we'd expect from Angel? Or Are they thinking, How did all this happen?
Angel Maldonado
You know, that's, that's a great, great question. And not to make the conversation too heavy. But a couple of weeks ago, I had a great conversation with some colleagues about generational trauma, and how it really is impactful on immigrant families. Because coming here, first generation, it's all about Keep your head down, show value, don't mess up, don't go backwards. And so when you tell them, it's advertising, and you can't explain what you do, because you're a project manager who's responsible for everything, but in theory, you don't really do anything. And so you just kind of tell them what you're making. They're like, wow, that's a lot of money for not understanding what you do. They're scared. And so there was a lot of that as I progressed in my career of them always plastic thing for almost any immigrant family, that they are always afraid of going backwards. So they want something they can understand. That's why you have a lot of doctors and lawyers coming out of those. Because those are concrete careers versus saying I'm an advertising.
Robert Berkeley
So let's, let's move on. So you worked for a bunch of other agencies. But I'd really like to get up to, where you are at Yelp? Was Yelp is your’s first in-house agency?
Angel Maldonado
It was, it was my first in-house agency. And you know, the mentor thread continues in these stories as well, because they went from I went from DDB to concept farm and the art director, Creative Director at that time, who helped me out and DDB went and started an agency called Concept Farm and brought me over there. So I spent about 15 years there becoming a partner at Concept Farm. And I had a great number of employees that passed through this amazing small agency. And I continue to mentor today. And one of those project managers that I hired many, many years ago, found themselves at Yelp. And in that department, their head of project management and operations wound up resigning. So he called me up and was said, “Hey, I would love to have you as a boss again, come check out Yelp.” And, and at that time, Robert, I was already working at MIT, and 72 and sunny, because we close down the farm after 15 years. And I was considering working for one of those companies. And when I went to Yelp and interview there, it felt amazing. It felt like a boutique agency because they're starting the in-house agency. And it was the exact opportunity not only to grow in-house agency but also to mentor some really great talents.
Robert Berkeley
So it is a work-from-home operation?
Angel Maldonado
Yeah, they still had offices around the country. But after the pandemic, they all went remote. And so it was a fully remote company. And it was a definitely a change for me because being a very tactile especially coming from psychology person. I like to feel the vibes I like to be with people, I really like to feel the energy. And that's how I kind of Intuit what I need to do to help my team. And so to go fully remote was a little freeing at the same time really, really scary.
Robert Berkeley
Absolutely, I can imagine so not only that, but you're you're being onboarded. You're a senior exec, you've got staff under you. How did you get started just you know, immediately in this remote environment? And how did you get to know the culture and get to take a view on it and the people?
Angel Maldonado
I was I was a little fortunate. The first week I started they were actually having their first IRL the first in real life meeting after they went fully remote for two years. And so my very first week we will met in Chicago and I was able to meet probably 80% of my team. And so it was a really quick start to actually building some relationships. And after a week, we all go back to our houses. And the odd thing about remote even though you only see people, when you're on camera with them, it is oddly intimate because even though you're not there with them 12 hours a day, now you invite it into their homes. And so after we actually were able to meet ourselves meet each other in real life, and then to come back and then see them in their living room, in their bedroom, in their car with their kids, you kind of grow relationships pretty fast in a very intimate way. While it does still feel oddly estranged. So it's one of those things you have to really get used to and understand the positives and the negatives of it. And it takes a lot of trust, you got to trust people were actually doing their job.
Robert Berkeley
And that was a learning for you about trust?
Angel Maldonado
It was it was it was learning for me, and I'm learning from my boss. She's great, Patti Jordan was my started out as the head of creative. And she hired me in as the Director of Operations and project management. And after a year of me complaining to her and basically trying to tell her her job for so long. She was like, You know what Angel, you take over my job, and I'm gonna go back and focus on what I do well. Yeah, it was a really interesting, fun moment she has so Equalists she's so amazing. And she wound up going back to being hurt for her first love, which is a copywriter, and put me as the head of the creative marketing. And that's how I in charge of this. And so, you know, going through these things, my psychology background, and just the idea of mentorship really does help in the remote worlds. And I try to find not only staff as we hire, but try to find insights about the people to really help them along and try to, you know, as they struggle, again, I go back to the saying of you find the beauty in the struggle, and if you don't, you kind of fail, you really got to embrace the tough times of being remote. And a lot of people think it's fun and great, and everybody's like, amazed. But as so great, you could work from home, you really do miss the camaraderie, you really do miss that motivation, you really do miss growing a team, any communication, that is the emails you get from Yelp, 90% of them are from my team, push notifications, we write those as well, any of the landing pages that are product specific, we do that as well. But we're such a big company, we are 5000 people.
Robert Berkeley
Billion dollar, yeah.
Angel Maldonado
A billion dollar industry, 5000 people across the world at this point, that there's too much creative for any creative team to do. And we don't have an agency of record, we are the agency of record. So one of the things we do is really work with a lot of outside agencies of designers and freelancers that the individual departments will find on their own just for scalability. And we really try to use playbooks and our guidelines to keep the brand in check and uniform sense. But you know, it's it's a lot of stuff to do for a small army of 22 people.
Robert Berkeley
And it's a lot of ongoing work. But it's also a lot of project work, I would guess then both both of those?
Angel Maldonado
Absolutely. And, you know, we're in the midst of annual planning now. So we're learning what 2024 is shaping up to be. And that's really where the project work comes out of, here's the new thing we're investing in, here's the new audience are going after those types of things and delta projects that we get to flex our creative strategic muscle. And you know, 80% 60, or 60 to 80% is the bread and butter emails and the routine work streams that you get every year because of either seasonal, or we know each quarter, we have to push this for whatever reason for our customers will local businesses, but then is really those projects that they asked for our help of saying, we don't know we want to do, but here's the result we want. And that's where a lot of the people we have gotten from agencies to come over to client side with us really get to flex their creative muscles, and they thrive in those scenarios. And it really shows why we're investing in people have an ACD level and an in-house agency.
Robert Berkeley
Do you think that that comes first, it's a common complaint I suppose, of in-house agency leaders is they don't get a chance to do direct product, they have a lot to bring strategically in terms of product development. And, you know, that also means you know, marketing strategy as well. Do you recruit because you were at that table? Or was there recruitment of talent that took you to that table?
Angel Maldonado 24:28
You know, we do a lot of snapper serenity prayer that's for sure. Got to accept the things you cannot change. And so there is definitely that product side that runs a lot of things were product-led company. So we have product designers that are very, very much in charge of a lot of things but anything that happens to hit marketing, we get to really run that roost and that's what we have sold to them. You know, one of the things is always complain about in-house agency with just a production house. I hear that so often. And I remind my folks that if when you work in agencies, how often are you not doing production, usually you have a couple of weeks or a couple of months of ideation, but then you have to produce on a campaign you sold. And that's all production. Same thing here, we have those ebb and flows of production stuff. And we have to do that in order to create the space to be more creative and more strategic. So making friends across the aisle with product, with legal with PR, is the only way to thrive to understand not only the business but the business goals. And then you start building relationships, showing your value of what creative can actually add to the business goals. And you know, sometimes that's the hardest thing to quantify. But it's really showing over time, that creative works, good creative works.
Robert Berkeley
Well, the listeners have inside jobs are always keen to know about the hard things so that they can get it easy, right? So they can hear how happier how people handle these hard things. Showing the value is hard. How do you go about doing it when you can't even just go down the corridor and stand by the water cooler and and discuss the latest success? Yeah, obviously has to be intentional Angel. How do you do that?
Angel Maldonado
Relationships, relationships, relationships. And while it's not exactly mentoring is the same kind of thing. And so I won't say any leaders' names because I didn't get any rice just say so. But you know, when I first started, there was a leader of a workstream. That basically told us you guys do not understand my audience, you guys don't understand my product. And I'm not sure if I could really use creative help. And six to 12 months later, that same leader is like, I cannot believe how strategic the idea was. Thank you next year when I need more of that.
Robert Berkeley
How do you, How did you show that because it's one thing to kind of do it, it's quite another thing to be recognised for it. You know, there's a, I was saying to someone this morning that anecdotes go a lot further than data. Quite often in business settings.
Angel Maldonado
We had to put our heads down, because we started getting known for a little while as a creative shop trying to be creative. And you know, you want to flex your muscle because you have it. And we had to learn we had to do the bread and butter stuff first and do that really well. And then spend a lot of time and what we call Tiger meetings and where we have a leader from each part of one business, just sit down and talk stuff with us. And that's the problem that doesn't happen often, which is you only talk about the projects you need to do versus talking about the business itself. And so once a, once a month, if not twice a month, we sit down with the business leaders and their people, and just kind of talk about what their goals are, why what's up next for them. And as we start understanding not only the business, but you can hear and you can intuit where they're concerned about. And then we go back and we do proactive ideas, we call them. And we'll have the entire group because sometimes you're on a vertical that is only doing emails all day. So you looking for those opportunities to actually ideate beyond that. So we'll have a proactive idea, put a brief out until the team, everybody comes to ideas for this workshop. And so we'll have a little bit of a workshop. And then we'll have them all submit ideas. And then we hold them with the ACD and seep and project manager who is on a business who understands the business, and then really craft them to us to business problems. And then we go back and show our stakeholders, you got to go to the friendliest ones first, in case there things are wrong, and they're going to help you with it. You go to them, and you show them these ideas, and they help you craft the relationship.
Robert Berkeley
So their rounds round zero as I think Delta call it.
Angel Maldonado
Yes.
Robert Berkeley
Round zero, Yep.
Angel Maldonado
Exactly. Round zero with a friendly face.
Robert Berkeley
Yeah, exactly.
Angel Maldonado
Because you want to show you show the wrong leader a mistake. And they just don't think you understand. So there is a little bit of a, you know, rounds there. I love that term. I heard that on one of the podcasts. So it's exactly what it is you go there first, and then you continually show you're not pushing an idea. You're not forcing it on them. Here's some stuff you guys see ideate on when you do annual planning next year, and you kind of let us sit there and wait so they understand you're not pushing an idea, just for creative sake, you push an idea for the business sake?
Robert Berkeley
And do you also provide metrics back as well, numbers, dashboards, that kind of thing? Or is it really on the put, you know, kind of subjective quality of the creative and the ideas.
Angel Maldonado
Performance is the only place we really get to show metrics because it is a one to one, you know, you put some stuff out you get results in a week.
Robert Berkeley 29:06
Click throughs that kind of thing.
Angel Maldonado
Exactly downloads. But on the other stuff, there's a tonnes of metrics. But it is really geared towards showing the the KPIs or ROI of what the marketer is looking for. There's not a lot of creative testing to prove it works other than if this was the best open rate, email sort of thing. But performance is really when we cut our teeth on the insights, we actually work with outside agencies. They give us all the data. We sit there, make editorial calendars, make some decisions, and they go out with a testing plan. And so that's where we can learn really fast. What I've learned is if you don't have if you're not an agency that you have these amazing creative opportunities because Apple came in and said, “hey, we launched a new product, give me some ideas.” You have to give the the creative team purpose. And the way I do that is for me doing my homework. I have to understand where Yelp is going. I listened to every investor call I go into the marketing leaders meetings, taking notes, reading the decks, looking at the videos, listen to the podcast. So I understand what the business was going. So I can anticipate, in three or four weeks when the investor cool comes out, I know where it's already headed. And I can talk to my team saying, Hey, this is what I heard, we're going to start investing heavily in this area and that area, therefore, we need to get our creative muscles up there, and really make them understand that their job matters. And here's how it ties back to the bigger goal. Because if they don't have that creative outlet, and they don't have a purpose tied to a job that's tied to the purpose of the company, they're just out there feeling like their production house, and they're gonna, you're gonna lose not only morale, but you gonna lose people. So going back and tying their job to the literal purpose of the company and the goals.
Robert Berkeley
See, this is a sustainable way to continue.
Angel Maldonado
It’s a great question. I would actually say yes, because I was a little afraid that wasn't the case, going into it, again, being a very tactile person that needs that kind of vibe, check with my people. But it really does work. Well, Robert, if you get the cadence and part of it is hiring correctly. And then if you didn't hire correctly training correctly, and one of the things we always go back to is emotional intelligence. And I just boil that down to coping mechanisms, I always try to get somebody who is specifically has worked remotely before, understands the pros and cons of it. And during the interview process, making sure they have a good story or two, that I believe that how they change either their work environment, they work process, whatever it is, there's a great little cafe around here that it's a workspace by my house in Westchester, and they have a little promotion. And the promotion is great, the promotion is you can order a desk by the day or the month as usual. But also they have the kids kind of time, which is the kids are going to come home at two o'clock today. So you can actually rent the desk in the twilight hour, from three to seven. So you can actually work for the rest of your day without the kids being in the way because that's when the chaos happens as they come home. So doing those kinds of things of finding out what works for you. And what doesn't, is the only way to make a sustainable and getting a group that understands that. And then seeks out mentorship seeks out opportunities to learn how to work better, and you need the one or two people in your group that's going to Slack people on the side of hey, what kind of pizza toppings you having today, what kind of cheese do you hate and these kinds of fun conversations, to bring that culture back there. And on top of that, really understand the goals of the business, you combine those two things.
Robert Berkeley
And you touched on something that I wanted to ask you about, which is the ability to empathise with people in a in a square box and pixels on a bright screen. How it surely challenges one's emotional intelligence to it, you know, when you're when you're dealing with people, you don't get all the signals from them, you know, even if you're the most, you know, tuned in to the way people think and the way their emotions, it's still very, very hard. So do you have any kind of suggestions for how people can better do that?
Angel Maldonado
Yeah, honesty, and I always tell my people I'm sometimes I'm a little too honest, to be the
Robert Berkeley
Brutal honesty!
Angel Maldonado
Brutal honesty, and you know, obviously with empathy and trying to really not only be honest with them about the company, the company goals, or even what they're struggling with, but give them a path forward. And always finding again, that that kind of beauty in the struggle of like, here we are now but here's where we can be. And I find the more I am honest with them about whether whatever I'm going through with a company's going through situation and change of leadership or whatever it is. The more people relate to that.
Robert Berkeley
Yeah, it's you're making me think of a book Radical Candor. Have you read that?
Angel Maldonado
Yes.
Robert Berkeley
You know, Radical Candor was, well, it was pretty huge for a while. But it does have a place when you're remote working?
Angel Maldonado
It has to be because you can't hide as much as it feels like you can. Ultimately the proof is in the work that you submit.
Robert Berkeley
You don't see the after effects of what you say to people. And when they when that when you hit the red button and you drop the line. Yeah. Fascinating. So, Angel, we could go on we there's lots I'd love to ask you about. You've talked a lot about the importance of mentorship and emotional intelligence we just touched on right there especially working from home, you know, remote work. There was a book I think that you mentioned to me earlier on multipliers.
Angel Maldonado
Yes, Multipliers by Liz Wiseman. It really has changed, transformed, rather my approach to management because as I just mentioned, sometimes I get a little long winded. And what that book is taught me was to kind of leave space for the people around you to kind of multiply their impact and you got to put people in that position and work remotely is a really a hard exam, a hard place to try to do that. At the same time is the most rewarding because it's pretty easy to put people in a place to be multipliers and really show their value when you're right there with them 8-10 hours a day. It's much harder when you have to put them on a path and then see the impact of that. And so putting people in situations where they can be multipliers and also create multipliers. You know, it's really fulfilling. And that book that she wrote, It's an Oldies But Goodies, it's absolutely worth for any manager to read, it'll be a lot of things that you're like, Oh, I knew that and other things. You're like, wow, I do that you can relate to it. And they'll give you several examples of people who are multipliers and people who are not, and I guarantee you'll be able to identify somebody within your career, who you currently work with, that you can relate to exactly these titles and understand why they are successful, or why they are not successful.
Robert Berkeley
Well, Angel, I gotta say, this has been quite the quite the interview. I've I've been absolutely routed to the spot listening to your story. Thank you so much.
Angel Maldonado
Thank you so much for having me, Robert.
Robert Berkeley
Well, your journey and your insights, mentorship, leadership, emotional intelligence have been really inspiring. You know, many of us do grow up for better or worse, probably worse, with a sense of entitlement. You know, we expect good things in life and generally we get them. I don't honestly think that was likely to have been the case when you were a child Angel. And it really is testament to your values and your hard work. And generally, what a good guy you clearly are. Our audience are also very good. Thank you for your support. Thanks for listening to this this insightful conversation we've got over 45 I think episodes of Inside jobs now on lijpodcast.com, If you found this episode inspiring do look at and have a rifle through the back catalogue other creative leaders working tirelessly to improve the position and the creativity of in house agencies. Also, please give feedback through your podcast app, leave a comment, rate, all of that stuff helps more people find this podcast and truly helps me get some amazing guests like Angel. So sharing is caring. You got to remember that you could if you know someone as well, who could benefit from angels wisdom, please pass this along. Do please share on LinkedIn and let people know about the inside jobs podcast and it's also brought to you by EKCS. Actually angels trusted partner for content production, although we were too modest to say that earlier on. So stay tuned and keep downloading more captivating stories and insights from the world of in-house agency leadership. Until next time, keep innovating, keep creating and keep leading from the inside. I'm Robert Berkeley signing off from inside jobs and I'll catch you on the next one.