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Robert Berkeley  0:02  

Thank you for joining us once again on Inside Jobsinside jobs, the podcast where we meet creative leaders and try and find out something about what makes them tick. Brought to you by IHAFI have the leading professional association for in house agencies and Eexpress KCS we v content production provider that's at the ready to meet in house agencies creative production needs. Now this episode, I have the extraordinary pleasure of meeting Jan Loomis, a journalist turn creative leader, Jan has a huge and disparate team to manage. And I'm really looking forward to hearing how she got into her role, as well as how she manages it day to day. So Jan john, thanks so much for joining us on Inside Jobsinside jobs.

 

Jan Loomis  0:43  

Thanks, Robert. And you made me smile, give me a big smile. When you introduced me, it's very exciting to be a part of this and to be able to share my knowledge and hopefully gain knowledge from others.

 

Robert Berkeley  0:54  

Well, but thank you very much, Jan Deb. Well, that's definitely intention. But I'd like to start off by asking you to share what it is you specifically do and for whom.

 

Jan Loomis  1:04  

So I actually am an employee of a company called REALOGY realogy. And REALOGY realogy is traded on the stock exchange and REALOGY realogy is the largest franchise or holder of real estate brands. So currently, REALOGY realogy has six real estate brands under their umbrella, and you will recognise them in the United States and overseas. But it's Coble banker, and it's Sotheby's. We have also Better Homes and Gardens, we have ERA era, we have a company called the Corcoran group. And we have century 21. So there's six different brands. I am a part of REALOGY realogy. I specifically work primarily on the Coble banker business, which is our largest brand. And we give Creative Services to the couple banker companies that are affiliated with the couple banker family as well as we have a company own division that we give specific services to as well. So and I also our creative team also will do periodically creative assets for the other brands. So we just finalised a programme called real vitalize that all the brands that I just mentioned, take advantage of so we did all the creative assets that they can go to market and give to their agents to actually give to the buyers and sellers of homes.

 

Robert Berkeley  2:27  

It sounds pretty demanding. And I'm looking forward to finding out more about it later on in the podcast, Jan john, but can you share with us? Where did it all begin for Jan Loomis?

 

Jan Loomis  2:36  

Well, for myself, I started out I am from a small town in Ohio. And I actually was adopted years ago by my parents who adopted my brother and myself. And we grew up in a very loving family with adoptive parents, because they not that every family isn't very loving. But they particularly had a challenge trying to have a child back in the day. So they wanted to make sure that we had all the support and all the advantages that they could give us. And I took advantage of that. So great employ you

 

Robert Berkeley  3:09  

Great employee didn't go into performing the blues then obviously.

 

Jan Loomis  3:12  

Right, exactly. Right. So basically, and I went to a small liberal arts, liberal arts college in Ohio, Ohio Wesleyan. And I was always interested in communication, also English, and I ended up in the journalism, they had a journalism specifically print at the time, but they did have a broadcast journalism, which I ended up funnelling into, and graduated with a BA with on the broadcast side,

 

Robert Berkeley  3:38  

met with the intention of being in a being in front of a camera. Everyone see here. It was a kind of it. Was there an egotistical element to that?

 

Jan Loomis  3:46  

You know, it's interesting. I mean, I think journalism is fascinating, and it's changed so much, you know, in today's world of social media, but um, yes, back in the day, I did have a desire to be on air, I did do some audio work. It's not quite as exciting, as you might think. But, you know, I thought, Oh, I need I want to be an anchor. But in reality, I ended up being funnelled into my first job, which is a newspaper reporter for a daily newspaper back, you know, when newspapers were kind of the kind of roll the world and it was very exciting because you know, you're in a in a newspaper environment you get to, on a daily job, you're cranking out stories every single day and you're on you know, it's very adrenaline packed as journalists. This

 

Robert Berkeley  4:29  

This was in Ohio. Yeah. This was it, because you were in New York for a short period, which must have been quite an eye opener for you in the 80s.

 

Jan Loomis  4:36  

Yes, I did like an internship in with NBC. And in New York City. Yeah, it was cool. I mean, it was not specifically in journalism and actually ended up being it's kind of they have a segment at NBC where they actually submit awards for anything that they do so that they can get awards, which just like the I have half awards that were submitted, but

 

Robert Berkeley  4:57  

But also prestigious success.

 

Jan Loomis  5:01  

But they enter all those so that they can get each of their programmes get notoriety, and obviously attract more talent, etc. So, but it was awesome was great experience. So But yeah, I just stumbled with a reporter for four years there and I covered several murder trials, which was very exciting. A lot of investigative journalism. Just it was it was really fun which I love to cover dateline and watch dateline, true crime, cat tennis stories and podcasts. So I guess that was my first love is there so?

 

Robert Berkeley  5:33  

Right, right. Okay, so working for the newspaper, the cut and thrust and as you say, they were really ruling the roost in the in that era, the late 80s, early 90s was great. So but what happened there then because there's a there's a journeyGod went on from journalism. So I

 

Jan Loomis  5:47  

So, I actually ended up doing some on air work with Aa, the main station in the city, Columbus, Ohio, which where I'm from, and it's the capital city of of Ohio, and I did some on air work. But in reality, I decided that, you know, back in the day, we were, I was making like $16,000. And I needed to bring in more income. So I ended up actually going into PR, and I did find a love for public relations. And in conjunction with that, I think, you know, a lot of people that have marketing degrees or marketing backgrounds, you know, you can go from journalism, to marketing to PR, there's so many facets of marketing that's, you know, exciting and gives people opportunities to grow their career. And then I ended up in just a general more of a general marketing role at the end, where I've stayed for the past 25 years. So

 

Robert Berkeley  6:38  

Tthat was where then that was with Coldwell Banker. Yeah. So

 

Jan Loomis  6:41  

Yeah. so, I ended up why Yeah. So I actually ended up when I was actually in Columbus, and I worked for a planning commission, which was a government position. And that's where I was doing public relations. I ended up moving to Cincinnati, Ohio, which is another large city in Ohio. And I ended up doing a general marketing with PR associated and then I and it was a developer from there, ColdwellCoble Bbanker actually solicited me to come work with them and head up their Cincinnati division, which ended up merging into their Ohio division, which ended up me actually being asked to move to our Florida operation. And then we actually broke apart our regional centres, which a lot of companies I think you go from having regional centres to local operations to national director, geo centre, it changes you know, every four or five years, but I ended up we ended up now we're in a in a national, our marketing is done in a national segment with a lot of local marketing team members in the field. So that's how we're set up today. And I sense have now had up one of the national divisions. So it's, like I said, I've been with the company for 25 years Coldwell Banker is specifically under the realogy umbrella. So

 

Robert Berkeley  7:54  

Rright, so let me let me see now you you started out as essentially a reporter we're working on crime, I think, right. And moving into PR, quite a quite a standard kind of progression, and then across PR into marketing. And then obviously, your wings unfolded with within marketing. And that became more of your and you'd call yourself a marketer now specific Yes,

 

Jan Loomis  8:16  

Yes, yes. And now I specifically I was I always I headed up the I one of our regional is basically areas of the country. And that was the whole East Coast down to Florida. And then we went national, so I was more of a general marketer, we had several different, you know, product, all kinds of different things under our belts, but now we've sectioned it off. So we have specialties and my specialty now is heading up our creative asset department. So anything that lends itself to the creative element, and everything does, is done by my team specifically. So we've kind of reorganised to that degree, and that's where I'm where I am now, since about 2017. So,

 

Robert Berkeley  8:55  

Uunless there's been a sort of 25 year apprenticeship, or have you actually gone away and studied marketing, and and so on, you know, in fits and starts along the way,

 

Jan Loomis  9:04  

I think, you know, it's probably in fits and starts along the way. You know, you certainly learn a lot in your particular industry and their particular role as a marketer. I think that, you know, when you have a good concept of how your organisation runs, it's always very helpful because I think everybody is focused on efficiency and speed in this day and age and longevity can always be there's positives to longevity and negatives. One of the positives I think of longevity, and from my standpoint, is you can move fast in the organisation, you can make things happen, you can fix things you can solution eyes, there's just a lot of things that that come about that having a long team can help but you always want fresh ideas. So it's always great to bring newbies into the organisation as well. So

 

Robert Berkeley  9:54  

Tthat was a very quick summary of what I think was really a quite a storied career. But on the other hand, it does bring us up to where you are. So can you describe what you're actually managing? And what well, first of all, what are the objectives of the team you have and then explain a little bit about how the team is is built and how it achieves those objectives.

 

Jan Loomis  10:12  

So, one of the things that we struggle with Anna and I've been on a lot of the IHAF have calls, committees and different things like that, that I think we all struggle with as marketers is there's organisations always want to come to us not not only to provide the tools that they need to be successful, but they come to us for solutions. And oftentimes, they come to us to fix things always in a crisis, and it's always more and more labour. Can you just do this? Or can I put this video out about this, we need to explain this. And there's often a lot of that, after the fact you're catching up, and I find on listening to different people, and we had the same struggle is still do but we were getting better at it, we did not have a way to basically explain what we did, and also what it took to get that done. We were just expected to do it basically for free..

 

Robert Berkeley  11:01  

do it basically, for free. And this is when are we talking about 2016 or so?

 

Jan Loomis  11:07  

Well, basically, it was happened in 2019 at the end of 201809. Okay,

 

Robert Berkeley  11:11  

Oh okay, relatively recementntly,

 

Jan Loomis  11:13  

Yyes. So I was struggling with you know, how do we how do we do this, I mean, our organisation and I think most organisations are not really in favour just continue to higher and higher and higher, you want to hire smart, you always want to be able to use freelancers, and, and you know, temporary help whatever it takes, but you want to you want to be able to also hire smart when you need to, and not always a challengethat

 

Robert Berkeley  11:38  

Yyou are a marketer looking to wrap to essentially achieve your marketing objectives. And typically, people would hire agencies to do this.,

 

Jan Loomis  11:45  

Rright. So we Yes, so what happened in our organisation in particular, so the the brand ColdwellCobleB banker does have a really great agency out in LA, and that that agency would do a lot of the big work like we do a TV commercial just did a big thing during the big TV commercial during March Madness, guiding you home, and it got all kinds of awards. So they would generally do the TV work. But as you know, and and we all know, as marketers, there's so much other work that has to get done, and an in house agency will afford you a much cheaper option. So where my blended rate for my services are $77 an hour, we're gonna spend 176 on an agent's across. So there's always an I don't discount agencies, because I think it's great to have an agency on record. But I also think, you know, you have to get the day to day things done, you have to get a flyer done, you have to change a logo, you have to do all those little things. But they add up, you know, we do about, we average about 600 or 700 jobs every single month. That's only a one set of visits, we add average about 730 jobs on the other side of our business. So we're looking at 1400 jobs every month. So that kind of work. That mid complex work. And then higher campaigns, we do two has to get done. And so we are pretty much like the in house agency for the Coble banker, the Coldwell Banker brand, so that's so but we needed to find a way we needed to really find a way to show our leadership who is asking us to do different things, what it costs, what are the timelines, we just, you know, we just can't do everything that comes in as particularly sometimes in the timelines that are asked so. So that was the real emphasis to get a structure in place. And we have like a hybrid chargeback model that we put in place that the really in the beginning of 2020, we actually did not even kick it off officially till mid year to 2020. And obviously we're going through the pandemic with everybody else. But we soft launch in the middle like July 2020. And we've been basically creating reports and talking about it every month to our to our lines of business throughout the rest of 2020. And it's now official and 2021. It's you know, out there we do monthly calls, we have reports that you know, we give out. So our lines of business, understand where they are and what what hours they're using, what they're getting charged, and things like that. But it's given us a way to basically control the madness. And some...

 

Robert Berkeley  14:26  

Tthese reports you did you were very kind you shared a little about with me earlier on. They're extremely First of all, they're very polished looking Thank you. But they're also very thorough and very detailed. Tell me about how you came to produce those and how they've they've evolved and what benefits they've had.

 

Jan Loomis  14:43  

Yes, so the reports they are very detailed. And one of the things that that we did a few years ago probably in 2017 we actually brought work front on and if if you don't have any sort of a a system to process jobs and process your work. It's nearly iImpossible to have a efficient system. So there's a lot of different different, you know, programmes out there. But we've been big work front fans and have found that to be great for us to actually do our work. So basically, everything is done through a workflow. And the way that I get my information is I, my entire team tracks time. And we set up, you know, fill in timesheets, they actually have to kind of manually do it, there's not a really great way to do it and work front. But yes, they mainly basically put in their time and track their time. And just stop right there. Just

 

Robert Berkeley  15:33  

Just for a second, we're gonna come back to this. But this is a question you get a lot, a lot A lot, which is how on earth do you manage to motivate people to complete their timesheets accurately?

 

Jan Loomis  15:43  

Well, and I will tell you at the beginning, I got a lot of pushback, because people felt like they were being micromanaged. And that I did not. And the other thing was, is they thought, like, Are you trying to eliminate me, basically. And so, you know, I tried to explain, and I think over time, it takes repetition. But the only benefit to track your time is to benefit you as a team. Because otherwise, we're not going to be able to hire, I cannot prove that we are over over capacity to get work done. So they're there, I can't turn work down unless you were accurately tracking your work. So it just took repetition. And I think, as we've hired based on that model, the fear of I'm going to eliminate you has gone down.

 

Robert Berkeley  16:29  

How many people have you got in total doing this? And across how many time zones,

 

Jan Loomis  16:33  

Wwe have 88 different people and everybody, everybody is in the States, but we're everywhere from Hawaii, all the way to the Eeast Ccoast of the United States. So okay, all right. Yeah.

 

Robert Berkeley  16:49  

So you say back to the reports, then so you're good at collecting the data, which is, which is awesome.

 

Jan Loomis  16:53  

Yes. And, you know, I mean, data is data. So, sometimes people don't want to look at the data. So, you have to explain the data and what it means. But what it does give to us is we can basically tell every month what we are having coming in as jobs, we also have, we set our SLA s which is you know our service level agreements based on our different complexities of workflows. And then we also track that. So we try to never be over 5%, meaning that we are always hitting our deadlines, always 95% of the time. So we track that we track our rush requests, we tracked our you know, we track all of these different things. And then what we do is we actually track based on our line of business. So we have 26 companies across the United States. And then we have, but beyond that, then we have over 2000 other affiliate operations that we also give services to but that we primarily track the hour to these 26 companies that our company out, and they all have a set of hours that they use, that they can use basically, to use our services. So they can see every month what they're using what they haven't used. So if they want to do a local Chicago campaign, and they want to do it, which they're doing right now, a billboard campaign, all different assets that they're doing, they know how many hours that they have available to work with, with my team. So we that's what we track, we track that every month with them. And we and we talked to them about it. Now our company owned operations, which is what I was talking about with our Chicago company, they are actually on an hour basis. So I attribute hours to them based on the size of the company, the number of the real estate agents they have, there's like a formula. So they they're very large company, they cover their very big city have a lot of home sales, so they get more of my hours and perhaps a smaller, a smaller company that we have. So that's how we do it on that side. The other lines of business that we actually give services to is our overall brand couple banker. And then I also give, like I said, some of the religion companies and they're actually charged $1 amount, so they're on a retainer. So I get finance, I get actual money from them. So which is nice, but basically that money just really covers our costs of hiring people to so the organisation that's an easier sell when I'm covering the cost of a lot of the positions that we're hiring as well. So...

 

Robert Berkeley  19:18  

And of that team, how much is what you might call high end creative totier one creative?

 

Jan Loomis  19:23  

Uh, you know, that's interesting, you say that, because I was I was thinking about that earlier. So probably the majority we have, we have really three, three complexity levels, low complexity, which is a two day turnaround, have a mid level, which is the sixth day and then we have a high concept, which is what you're referring to, which is we try to 10 days, which it depends on how complex it is. If it goes more than 10 days, but the majority of I would say 80% of all the jobs are gonna fall into that moderate that mid range complexity. Like I need a social media campaign. I need this and so it's going to be not a huge complexity them will probably have the other 20%. And some of its low but not a lot of low complexity, the other 20% are going to be high level to 30% are probably high level campaigns that different different people want to have in their local marketplace, or we have we're doing for the overall organisation. There's a lot of different reasons that jobs come into us. Well, this

 

Robert Berkeley  20:21  

Well, this brings another question to mind is that you have a member again, you're telling me you had potentially 80,000 agents out there plus international client, and you interface with those. You can explain how in a minute, but I'm also curious to know how on earth you get consistent briefing from that, that you can actually work with? Yeah,

 

Jan Loomis  20:41  

Yeah, it's a good question, because I think creative briefs are always a challenge. And I actually just challenged my team, my creative team to actually put together a blog for our internal team to brief people on how to do a better job with their creative brief, because, you know, even myself putting in a creative brief, if I'm doing one for our team, sometimes I'm like, Oh, I just want to skip over and like, just tell them what I want them to do. But then I'm like, No, I need to be disciplined. And I need to explain as much as possible so that they can start some of the work. But it is it is a challenge. I think creative brace, you're always going to have that stress between the account team and the creative brief. And the creative team trying to figure out what they want in order to turn things around in a timely manner, too. So it's, you know, I think that's always a work in progress.

 

Robert Berkeley  21:26  

Do you have any automation as well? Do you have tools that you give your agents that they can access and create their own unique artwork or whatever.

 

Jan Loomis  21:34  

So so we're basically how we work is because there are so many agents, we have two teams, we have a national team, and we have what we call an agent team. So the age of design team actually does give personal branding to all of our agents, they do pay for it. So there is we have a platform that we've built, where our agents come into the platform, they actually we know that our agents, when they come in, we can identify them through our data. So we already sell fulfil a lot of the form fields that they have to fill out. So but they fill out their they fill out the other thing. So if they want to do a custom logon, we do a tonne of it's our, our number one actually requested asset is custom logo. If they want to do a custom logo, we do have a form field. And then we have a little thermometer that shows you where you are in the process. But you also go through and you tell us what you like, do you like modern? And there's an actual visual of Do you like a modern type of logo? Do you like this? There's questions that you ask that we ask of the agent before we get started. And then our project management team puts that into a job that goes to one of our designers. That is that's the specialty is the logos, custom logos. And then we basically we do five designs for every single logo. And that's how we get that's how we get started. So that's how our agent side of the business actually gets done. So in that that's beside it. That's the most exciting side because it's really difficult to and I don't there's very few organisations in real estate that have figured out how to deliver agent services from from I've

 

Robert Berkeley  23:18  

 I've noticed in real estate, I mean, there's plenty of those types of organisations around especially in finance. Oh, interesting. Yeah, it's, yeah, this is a this is a common challenge.

 

Jan Loomis  23:27  

Yes, so we've we figured out we've got a platform, and we actually have, it's working really, really well. And it's taken us about a year and a half to get it up and running. But that's when I when I consider the agent side, we call it the design considers because it's an actual platform that we built. So we're feeling a lot of stress right now from from a employee standpoint, trying to make sure that we have enough people to work on all the requests because some of these are packages that have literally 13 different parts of the job. So you may just you may be ordering a disrupt your package and you have like 13 different things you have to it's one job coming in or 10 different assets. So it's it's it's a lot but there is a you know, there is a cost to it. So that does control to some degree. So you know, are we charge $50 an hour for our, for our agents, basically, our prices are based on $50 an hour. So we do underwrite that our actual true costs from an agency standpoint is about $77. But the company does underwrite some of that because we want to make sure that our agents are getting the tools they need to succeed because if they're not selling real estate we don't we don't have a business

 

Robert Berkeley  24:33  

to success. I mean, yeah, it's exactly, very tightly. What fascinates me Jaen is that is that is that to an outsider, you you really have the most complicated and and disparate set of things to handle. And yet by focusing on numbers and process, you seem to be very easy to have it under control. From what from what you're saying. And it's it is that the key to it is is it measuring and ensuring this type process?

 

Jan Loomis  25:00  

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think you know, I mean, I have a creative teams. We don't like process a lot of. So but I also Fortunately, I like processed and fortunately, my production team and my production team that actually manages the other reporting for that house. They like process and our project management team likes process. So they've actually created discipline around an area that we were very disciplined around. And I'm not sure all of our probably our designers that they listen to this so good, like they they don't like it's sometimes because they just, you know, they want to have that interaction with every single client. But we also have to move fast. So we do need to have our clients come to us and give us information before we get started. And so yeah, it's all about that. And the only way the data works in our favour, is I look at every job role every month. And you know, I tracked the actual utilisation rates weekly, because that's really the tail the cap capacity models by job role is really what you need to look at. So you know, where what you need to hire. But that's all so you can be in arrears easily like this month, you know, we've got the, so you have to kind of look at the utilisation rates to understand where you're really feeling a strain on resources. So yeah, the only way that my finance team, they are like a, like an you know, it's hard to blow away a finance team, they're actually blown away by we think like them, and they we've put a, we basically put a value to the work that we do, which is never

 

Robert Berkeley  26:35  

on your side, right? Yeah. Once you've done that, you their friends for life, right? Because they worry about you and they go work on someone else.

 

Jan Loomis  26:42  

And they understand your model, and they understand what you're doing. And they've approved when you hit that mark, that when you ask for resources, that there's credibility to it, you're no longer having to prove yourself. So that's been a huge win for us. And it didn't happen overnight. So it's been a lot of it's been a lot of work getting that in place, but you have to live and die by that or, you know, you will die your resources will

 

Robert Berkeley  27:04  

Yeah. So what's the next challenge for you, Jaen?

 

Jan Loomis  27:07  

Well, we right now, we've made a commitment to roll out our design concierge or agent side to all of our franchisees across across the ColdwellCoble banker organisation and that is another there have 2900 offices that we are rolling out and also internationally 40 different countries. So we are that model is being launched officially to the rest of the organisation this quarter. And I have 100 companies that have lined up ready to move on it. So I'm a little nervous. But we want to make sure that we have that agent platform for personal branding out to all of our affiliates by the end of the year. So that's one of our big goals. Some of our other goals is just I think, as a creative agency, everybody struggles with trying to find time for your creatives to be creative. So our goal is always to be 50% under capacity, and in all of our job roles. And we rarely hit that. So what I'm trying to do is create different forums, that we can keep the creative juices going. So I don't know if everybody took advantage of the Adobe since the virtual event was free last year, and they have another summit coming up right now. So we're all attending virtually the Adobe summit, which was always kind of cost prohibitive. We're attending that we created an imaginary one, which is based on the movie of the same name that basically a way to inspire creativity. And we're really trying to build that in every month. So our creative team is just not focused on getting that job done and out the door and meeting the SLA and moving on. So that's a real challenge always is to try to make sure that they're not their juices aren't dried out. It's

 

Robert Berkeley  28:55  

It's been it's been a particular challenge with lockdown as well and writing this, not only in the US, but in the UK as well that there are creative leaders who are really casting around for ideas as to how to creatively stimulate their team so that they're not getting they're not getting stuck in a rut, quite honestly. So it's fantastically exhilarating to hear you really making positive steps in that way, Janjohn. So john, you clearly got the whole thing completely buttoned down. I hope your private life is a complete mess because I can't believe that.

 

Jan Loomis  29:26  

Well, I don't want to fool anybody. We're not completely buttoned down. But I do feel like we had the foundation set. And like I said earlier when I've been on some of the IHAF have meetings that I've been in some chats that we've gotten on to which have been great to brainstorm. I think we all struggle with this ability to prove value and not get overwhelmed and hire when you need to hire and show why like, I think that's a big thing too. People just think that they snap your fingers. I don't understand why you can't get me a logo the same day. Yeah. If I had nothing else to do, and I didn't have 500 other people waiting in front of you, but you know, so it's always telling that story. And I think one of our challenges are in when you talked about what are we focused on one of our challenges are we get so busy, that we forget to sell ourselves? And so that's, that's really one of the tasks we talked about this year, how do we get better at selling ourselves internally to our own organisation? So I challenged that we started putting out a quarterly, what we call a sizzle video video that really shows some of our creative work. But we're also going to build in monthly to our lines of business calls, some of the work we feel most proud of. So our lines of business can see what we're doing as well. So I think that will help. But that's always a challenge. We, you know, we almost have to make it a job, because otherwise it's difficult for us to focus on us.

 

Robert Berkeley  30:52  

I really want to thank you so much for your time and joining us on Inside Jobsinside jobs. JOHN. Thanks so much. Thank

 

Jan Loomis  30:57  

you, Robert. I really appreciate your time.

 

Robert Berkeley  31:00  

Thanks to you, the lovely listener for joining us and to Jan Loomis of Coldwell Banker for telling us so much about her creative operation. Now, that's a lot of brands and people to keep happy. But Jan has proved that with tight process and regular collecting of the numbers, you can actually sail the ship right through all of that very serenely. Also, thanks so much to Emily Fosterfoster of our esteemed partners IHAF have and my producer Amy MacNamara for making all of these things possible. Also Pprerna Chhabrachapra to Eexpress KCS for handling the podcast editing. sSo beautifullybeaut., Iif this is the first episode of Inside JobsInside jobs that you've heard, then a very, very warm welcome to you. Please do take a little moment now to visit our website ij podcast.com. To see our evergreen back catalogue of episodes. There's something there for everyone, I think, well, you can also subscribe to our newsletter there and please look me up on LinkedIn say hi and press that Lincoln button. It's always great to hear from people who are running and working in and around the in house agency world. Till next time