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Robert Berkeley  0:01  

Sstrap on your ear protectors while I power up for another episode of Inside jobs. The podcast served up just for you creatives who work out or with in house agencies, brought to you in association with IHAF half and Eexpress KCS. We meet creative leaders who work directly for brands, learn about how they got to where they did and understand what drives them. Wade Frank's career has taken him from outdoor billboard painter until that job came crashing down to senior vice president of TTI. There he oversees a large in house agency which supports such iconic brands as Ryobi, RidgidRrigid, Echoecho EG,eg and Hoover. I wanted to use the interview to Hoover up as much as I could about his career and started by drilling into his background and asking him where he's located. Hello, thank you very much for joining us. Where are you located way?

 

Wade Franks  0:4751  

Hello, 

 

Robert Berkeley  0:48 

Thank you very much for joining us. Where are you located Wade? 

 

Wade Franks  0:51

We're located in Anderson, South Carolina. It's called the uUpstate part of South Carolina.

 

Robert Berkeley  0:58  

So is the office located in the middle of mountains and beaches?

 

Wade Franks  1:01  

It's pretty close. But it's it's actually, we are operating out of an old sewing machine f. Factory. And we've been here for 20 something years.

 

Robert Berkeley  1:12  

Very cool, but it sounds like it has its limitations as well.

 

Wade Franks  1:16  

Oh, yeah. Well, we've been, you know, busting out walls here, moving out here, patching the roof every year. So it's gonna be nice to have a new state of the art photo video labs,

 

Robert Berkeley  1:27  

and you did not come from a particularly creative family. Is that right? Or is that an unfair statement?

 

Wade Franks  1:35  

Well, yeah, my mom was pretty artistic, and but they were always very encouraging of my my doodles and drawing and all that kind of stuff. So they were convinced that, I would be a cartoonist and they would see my stuff in the newspaper, but it didn't quite go that way. How I ended up atthat Texas State.

 

Robert Berkeley  1:57  

Wwere you were you from the city. orAre you from the country?

 

Wade Franks  1:59  

I'm from the country. Yeah, I grew up on a farm. My father was crop duster. Honestly, breathe breathing a lot of poisone on actually, but so did you

 

Robert Berkeley  2:10  

Did you did you spend time oin your father's plane?

 

Wade Franks  2:13  

No, they were restricted. I worked on them a lot. There werewas other planes around, so I did get to fly a lot done. You know, pretty much every stuff you can do in those.

 

Robert Berkeley  2:21  

Did you get your pilot's licence as well?

 

Wade Franks  2:23  

No, I never did. My dad was a he was pretty adamant that I should follow this artistic thing and not be a crop duster. I think he had concern I'd kill myself and he would never forgive my

 

Robert Berkeley  2:37  

being an artist in the Texas countryside where we have a lot of schoolmates sympathetic to this calling.

 

Wade Franks  2:43  

Yeah. Well, I mean, they they were sympathetic, but they were always they always just Hey, draw me this, draw me that. And honestly, there was a couple other guys that were a hell of a lot better. And I was that I went to school with but they they didn't pursue it.

 

Robert Berkeley  2:58  

Did you have any role models? Did you have any kind of?

 

Wade Franks  3:01  

I knew I liked some cartoonists. I liked some guys from Mad Magazine. I think one of those Sergio Aragonesare goannas,. aAnd another one called Don Martin, and then there was Aal CaponeAPP.

 

Robert Berkeley  3:17  

Wow, so that so that was kind of us sitting there and thinking that being a cartoonist or commercial artists in some way would be a future. And at the university did they did they give you other opportunities to explore various other forms of media?

 

Wade Franks  3:29  

Texas State, at the time, wasn't really famous for this degree. There were definitely other schools that I've never even heard of. But, you know, you'd do workshops and stuff and be like, Oh, these guys are from East Texas. And this man is like, man, I should have looked into this school. But anyway, they did fine. At the time. And then when I graduated, you know, Texas was in a real slump. I mean, you could drive through Houston. And the bill was some of those buildings were see through, you know, and just these big subdivisions that were just abandoned. It looked like a war zone. So wasn't a great job market when I graduated, but...

 

Robert Berkeley  4:05  

that that kind of forced you out of out of the city and out of the state, I guess, then did it

 

Wade Franks  4:098  

I guess, then did it No, no, I did. I did end up in San Antonio. Working in a print shop and before that it was painting billboards. On the side of the road. What was that like? It sucked actually.

 

Robert Berkeley  4:203  

What was that like?

 

Wade Franks  4:21

It sucked actually. 

 

Robert Berkeley  4:23  

It’s Sunshine in the sun in the summer? Oh my god

Sunshine in the sun in the summer?

 

Wade Franks  4:265  

Oh my god, really something but I did learn a great trick. Was this is old side painter, Yyou know, you're out there painting, you know, 60 feet up in the air painting whether man's face you really can't tell what it looks like. You know the things you look out the hotel door with to see who's there? 

 

Robert Berkeley  4:42 

Oh, yeah, yeah...yeah

 

Wade Franks  4:43

he hung one of those around my neck and he says back up on the scaffolding as far as you can go and lean way out and look through that thing in reverse. And that way I'd say so you could see what you're doing. And it was just a great trick. That and right now,. Iit's all done digitally. So they gotIt's just, there's banners that are printed in house and they just go stretch him. But back then we used to paint them. And we were painting one day and we had the scaffolding pretty much all the way up to the top. And he didn't tie his, his rope off very well. And his gave way. So the whole thing fell onto the catwalk,. aAnd I slipd down onto him, and we didn't fall,. bBut, it took me about an hour to get the nerve up just to climb down, and and and I never went back.

 

Robert Berkeley  5:34  

So anyway, so you fell off the platform, and you fell out of sSignwWriting. And you found a print shop. Right? Well, how fun was that? It was,

 

Wade Franks  5:41  

It was, it was a lot of fun. It was the best thing that could happen to me, honestly, because a lot of people need stuff printed, and they can't afford an ad agency or a design firm. 

 

Robert Berkeley  5:52

So you just literally got kind of retail requests for brochures and logos and pretty much anything. 

 

Wade Franks  5:57

That's right a. And back then it was a it was still a lot of handwork. I mean, Maxc's were just coming on the scene, but I learned a tonne about printing, because I would have to mark my boards, you know, the Emeraldamberleigh, the Ruby, all that stuff. 

 

Robert Berkeley  6:09

And it's sort of as you're progressing. How old are you at this point when you're when you're the bridge? 

 

Wade Franks  6:13

Oh, I was Gosh, 24-25. And then yeah, and we had a client there, this this owned a beachwear company or an activewear company out in California. And I designed a brochure for him and they really liked it a lot. And, you know, they offered me a salary. And I thought it was just incredible. And I was going to be rich. And I went after it.

 

Robert Berkeley  6:34  

And I went after it. So this was in those Wednesdays at 83three or four or five

 

Wade Franks  6:38  

$5. It was eighty...eightyat at seven.

 

Robert Berkeley  6:42  

Yeah, so Silicon Valley was just burgeoning at that point.

 

Wade Franks  6:46  

There was Yeah, I guess. Oh, I guess yeah, like I said, Maxc's are just on the scene,. back then,.a And boy, I went out there and it was a rude awakening a. And thenI nearly starved to death. 

Robert Berkeley  6:56

WhyFly. 

 

Wade Franks  6:58

You know? $18,000 just doesn't go very far. California a year. I thought it was and I thought that was a lot of money. Yeah.

 

Robert Berkeley  7:09  

What did you do? How did you survive? You die? cheap.

 

Wade Franks  7:13  

I had to live with a budget isbunch of dudes. But yeah, that that lasted uh, that was a pretty good run out there. But I had met I had met my wife to be in Texas. And we'd only dated a couple of months when I moved to California. So we stayed in touch. And she called me up one day. Well, I'd asked her to marry guys, y'all flew her out and asked her to marrynear me and all that stuff one time. And she was like, well, she said eventually, actually, yeah.

 

Robert Berkeley  7:42  

She's German. Is that right?

 

Wade Franks  7:44  

No, no, she's, she's from Arkansas. Texas. She's from Arkansas, but. And she called me one day and said, she worked for the Department of Defence and the Air Force and marketing. And she goes, Hey, yep. You know, I've got this opportunity to go work in Germany. And, you know, if we were getting married, you could fly for free. Hey, all right. So went and put my resignation in and loaded everything back in my truck and drove back to Texas. She was in Texas at the time. And 

 

Robert Berkeley  8:17

Yyeah,yeah,

 

Wade Franks  8:18

 within the span of three weeks, we got married, built a deck to get married on because that's where that was the deal. We lady, a friend of hers said we could use her house. But we had to build a deck first. So we did that. And so yeah, and then off to off to Germany. We flew and then landing was an experience because I guess, did you

 

Robert Berkeley  8:347  

and then landing was an experience because I guess, did you realise everyone spoke German in Germany at that point? Were you? You're already up on that.

 

Wade Franks  8:42  

Well, I started looking for a job, you know, right off the bat and was having a hard time. I really did. I did get a job at the on the air on I was actually an army base, doing wargames. And it was weird because that's, that's when I really first got on a computer and it was a old PC a 286 I believe it had a programme called Arts and Letters. And so that's where I started that so I was doing logos for fake wars, you know that they were saying a NATO would come and they would they would sit and they've instead of going out tearing up the countryside and tanks and stuff they would do by computer. And it was it was it was pretty cool. But, so that...

 

Robert Berkeley  9:24  

so that would be the future there manyas an eight way 

 

Wade Franks  9:26  

Oh, yeah. 

 

Robert Berkeley  9:26 

Brand branding on walls. 

 

Wade Franks  9:33  

Yeah.

 

Robert Berkeley  9:29 

 If you start with the logo and you you you what kind of war is this going to be? 

 

Wade Franks  9:33  

Yeah. Oh, yeah. 

 

Robert Berkeley  9:34 

colour palette Do you want to use 

 

Wade Franks  9:35  

O Yeah, 

 

Robert Berkeley  9:36

It couldcan be the thing for the future. To back onto Germany. You, Sso were you picking up German? Were you learning German or?

 

Wade Franks  9:43   

Yeah,

 

Robert Berkeley  9:43  

it's progress.

 

Wade Franks  9:443  

Well, we we decided to live, you know, way away from the airbase, we found this little town and I had found a job as this German gentleman that I met. You know, just I just happened to call him and he's like, Okay, come And when, but what if you're immersed in it? That's when you really pick it up. 

 

Robert Berkeley  10:05

Yeah..,

 

Wade Franks  10:05

And it honestly, for for the first six months, you know, when I didn't understand a lick, it was kind of nice because I didn't know any interoffice politics or who's doing what all that kind of stuff. It was just right over my head, but but after a year I'd picked up enough. And next thing I know, I was, you know, speaking where I didn't have to think about it, you know,

 

Robert Berkeley  10:28  

Sso,. sSo how did it develop in Germany? How long were you there for?

 

Wade Franks  10:31  

Oh, a little over four years? Yeah. I've continued to work at that place. Another reason this guy hired me is because I could design on a PC. They had a Mac and they had a PC and they're like, nobody uses this thing. You use it. I'm like, Okay, sure. 

 

Robert Berkeley  10:48

Did this design on on the PC? 

 

Wade Franks  10:50

It was CorelDRAW…

 

Robert Berkeley  10:28

 oOn the Mac. 

 

Wade Franks  10:56

Oh, it was the Adobe, all the Adobe stuff. I think it was Quarkcork though. The Quarkcourt 

 

Robert Berkeley  11:00

Yeah, 

 

Wade Franks  11:00

layout thing, but Iillustrator and Quarkcork and photo photo, some Photoshop? 

 

Robert Berkeley  11:05

Yeah. 

 

Wade Franks  11:06

But, but back then it was still. You had a photographer, you had a place to develop the film, you had a place to scan the film, and then you would get it, you know? So, all those places have gone away. Pphotographers are still around, but the all the middlemen have? 

 

Robert Berkeley  11:24

Yeah, 

 

Wade Franks  11:25

 

gone by the wayside, that's for sure. Oh, we need to get back to the States. So we started doing research. And that kind of came down to this part of the country. We landed in Charlotte and kind of set up camp there. I interviewed in Winston Salem at a really amazing Aad agency a. And they offered me a big job. And but you know that RJ Reynolds was their one of their biggest clients and you know, the cigarette company. And, I was like, Is there any way I can work here and not work on cigarettes? I said, My mom's dying of lung cancer. I just can't, I just can't do it. neverThey're like, No,

 

Robert Berkeley  11:59  

Your companyI'll be is promoting a cigarette. Yeah.

 

Wade Franks  12:00  

So, sSo I passed on that lLuckily, and then I got a job offer down in Greenville, and ended... 

 

Robert Berkeley  12:06

Byup the way was your German experience handy, when you were doing these interviews? Did it did it did it? Was it count as a plus for you having worked abroad for four years or not?

 

Wade Franks  12:14  

 Well, it set me apart, from other the other books because I had all this, like wowwild German stuff in it, you know, it was very different. And being able to say, Hey, I can speak German too. Oour German friends come and visit. You know, you say hey, German- if you're ever in America, come see me. 

 

Robert Berkeley  12:30

AndYeah, 

 

Wade Franks  12:31  

they do. 

 

Robert Berkeley  12:32

And oh,

 

Wade Franks  12:34  

 they stay nice. And they stay for like a month.

 

Robert Berkeley  12:37  

Just Just a quick note to Wade's friends in Germany if they happen to be listening to it. Yeah, of course. They are always welcome and 

 

Wade Franks  12:43

they are 

 

Robert Berkeley  12:44

a month is too short.

 

Wade Franks  12:49  

Yeah, but But anyway, we ended up working as a Ccreative Ddirector for about 14 years. 

 

Robert Berkeley  12:57 

So, where did that come from? So, you were a designer, when you got back, you interviewed for jobs as a designer. And then in the course of your your career there, you got promoted to Creative Director.

 

Robert Berkeley  12:58  

you were a designer, when you got back, you interviewed for jobs as a designer. And then in the course of your your career there, you got promoted to creative director.

 

Wade Franks  13:05  

It was such an unpleasant experience for them. They vowed never to have one again. But, I came on and worked for four or five years. And then finally they're like, all right, you can be the creative director. And you're not like that other guy. 

 

Robert Berkeley  13:22

Yeah.

 

Wade Franks  13:22  

 Well, thanks. And so yeah, so I was creative director there for a long time. And so...

 

Robert Berkeley  13:26  

So, what era? Are we into the digital internet era at all with this? Or is this purely print and and ...

 

Wade Franks  13:34  

it's mostly print still, I did end up hiring one guy that started doing the bit a website for BMW, and, well, we want our website to be cool, but if we do it this way, only a third of the people are going to be able to see it,

 

Robert Berkeley  13:52  

you know? And 

 

Robert Berkeley  13:54

But, so when was this when was this though? This

 

Wade Franks  13:565  

This was 95-96

 

Robert Berkeley  13:59  

Okay, yeah, really, really super early days saturated colours and

 

Wade Franks  14:03  

yeah, 

 

Robert Berkeley  14:03  

standard font 

 

Wade Franks  14:04  

and, you know, the old dial up stuff and it was just really a struggle and, and then there was a bubble. So that out that column that burst that comecalm things down a lot. But, but then, you know, it it cranked all back up again. And then that was, you know, you could tell that was where everything was going.

 

Robert Berkeley  14:23  

So as a print guy through and through and that had been used pretty much.  Hhave you been doing TV at all in your experience in Germany or back early in the States.

 

Wade Franks  14:31  

Ddid a little bit of TV It was very, very low budget, we're talking like, you know, put the video camera set a guy in a wheelchair, that's our Dolly, you know, type type type stuff, but it was it was a lot of fun learned a lot but it was still mainly print and outdoor and outdoor until the computers came along. 

 

Robert Berkeley  14:51 

Yes,

 

Wade Franks  14:51

 on the screen, it's probably going to print pretty much like that, you know, 

 

Robert Berkeley  14:554  

you know, took a while to get to that.

 

Wade Franks  14:56  

That's right and but it takes away all that Hands skill of cutting all that film and doing all that stuff. I actually kind of miss it because I was really good at it.

 

Robert Berkeley  15:06  

And and  but these skills that you're talking about are the analogue skills in large in a large proportion. Did you find them transferable to to the web and design that easily? Or did you feel that was kind of having to relearn aesthetic approaches as well as of course, production approaches.,

 

Wade Franks  15:21  

Rright. And it's and it’s, and you can do anything you want. Now, like I said, in the early days, you had to know don't make a big black thing that's 

 

Robert Berkeley  15:29

Yeah

 

Wade Franks  15:30

gonna take forever to load, you know? 

 

Robert Berkeley  15:30

Yeah, yeah...

 

Wade Franks  15:32

So, Bbig images were, you know, yet avoid those. But now if, gosh, whatever you want. Yeah.

 

Robert Berkeley  15:41  

Yeah, Sso sSo you were at an agency? Well, I've got a note here, BMW agency where you're serving BMW, wasn't that BMW was it?

 

Wade Franks  15:48  

Well, BMW was the client. And the the agency name was called Jackson Dawson. And they were they were a big automotive, they had one part of the company was this. You know, this served, you know, BF Goodrich and Michelin and those guys, they do these events, and ride and drives and all that kind of stuff where people could test the tires, and all that. So then the other half was more traditional, creative agency stuff, like I was handling a lot of that. Yeah. So

 

Robert Berkeley  16:201  

Yeah. So you were there for what? 13 odd years, you thought that enough of these traditional advertising agencies already what you really, what your heart yearned for, was an in house agency.

 

Wade Franks  16:30  

Well, no, not really. It was I got a call from a friend of a friend that was running reo ob. And that's that that's the brand that everybody knows it. And nobody really knows who TTI is. But everybody knows who VOB is. Because it's like the number one. 

 

Robert Berkeley  16:5048  

like the number one, Yyou've got a whole bunch of quite well known brands there.

 

Wade Franks  16:52  

Right. 

 

Robert Berkeley  16:53

But anyway, we'll get into that in a bit. God, 

 

Wade Franks  16:54  

Yyeah. But he called and said, Hey, I want you to come and do this in house agency and I acid, you know, I've been nice to in house guys my whole career. I mean, if if a company has an in house agency, they bring it out, they bring an outside agency, and they tell them look, you need to be nice with these guys. You need to let them you know, contribute and play along and all this and like, Oh, yeah, oh, brother. Oh, really? Okay. But, so I didn't want to be that guy. He's like, no, because no, you don't understand you would run it. And you would decide if you want to send stuff out or not. And you can do it. You can name it, you can. Blass took about six months of dating, so to speak. And then finally was like, Yeah, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna just gonna try this. I'll give I'll give it five years.

 

Robert Berkeley  17:42  

So so they already had an in house agency that was already mandated by the brands that they had to use that.

 

Wade Franks  17:49  

Tthey had a packaging group back when we first started, it was I guess it was about 12 people. And they were doing all the packaging and PLP. And so it came in. And there was still not a web presence here at all. There was a website, but it was kind of a like a brochure. But one of the one of the young creatives came and said, Hey, I heard that they're going to send this website out is I can do this. And then he got a couple more guys to say, yeah, to convince me We can do this. So I went to them and and I said, well go for it. So so we did and it was off to the races. So started.

 

Robert Berkeley  18:23  

Now how did that happen? Business wise. So there was a budget already allocated IT,it felt they were in charge of building the website. That's right. So you had to go to someone somewhere and say, I've got a slicker, quicker, more brand appropriate, what cost? What was that? What was How did this happen? I don't know how TTIto work internally. So I don't know how easy these things are, you know, I

 

Wade Franks  18:44  

you know, I was standwaltzed in here thinking no more timesheets? Haha. I've never gonna have to do that again. And they're like now, No., Yyou have to bill for everything you do. And you know, you're supposed to be zero at the end of the year. That way people it's yourreal money. And people aren't sending your log is on wild goose chases. And we all know it when I see it 

 

Robert Berkeley  19:02  

it across billing internally 

 

Wade Franks  19:04

right 

 

Robert Berkeley  19:05

services. And now come forward 12 years to where we are today. what's what's happened to this department and what's driven those changes. You

 

Wade Franks  19:14  

You know, everything's on the web now. And that's, that's what changed. I mean, there there are dribs and drabs. But the email blast and all that stuff. That's what's that's the big change. Of course, now with all the social stuff, that that is, that's, that's been huge, too. So everybody's grown. So I'm 83at three people now. And then a small army of freelancers, too, but that department and my photo video departments have just blown up.

 

Robert Berkeley  19:44  

This 83 people from 12 is a is a big jump in 12 years. So you these are dollars that are now spending with you that they would have otherwise had to spend with external creative and production agencies. 

 

Wade Franks  19:57  

That's right. 

 

Robert Berkeley  19:58

That's too, an every step of the way. Have you had to make the case? And it's grown incrementally? Or was there a kind of watershed moment when it was a case of, look, let's just stop working with external agencies at all, if you give me this size, this budget, I can build you a department that's capable of meeting all the needs.

 

Wade Franks  20:14  

Oh, so it's those guys that the support has been great here. They're behind me all the way. I mean, I've had to go and you know, pitch and ask for more money in this area, this area, but it's, it's it's mostly for equipment, and it's space. But

 

Robert Berkeley  20:29  

But one of the arguments against in house agents is quite a lot is the fact that they feel goodthat people who inhabit those in house agencies only get to see that brand. And don't get to see the rest of the world and how other things are done. It seems to me that because you have at TTI, you have this, what dozen or so brands that you you work for, you probably do have quite a broad experience there. But is there a problem? Or do you feel that agencies have the upper hand by being out there with it with a wider and more diverse portfolio of clients?

 

Wade Franks  21:01  

The big advantages we have is we know, we know the rules, you know, we know what safety's gonna say, we know what products gonna say we know what everybody's gonna say. And we will pitch you know, things that are edgy, and that kind of stuff. And sometimes it sometimes they're like, hey, yeah, that's cool. There's a bunch of groundwork that we don't have to muddle through, you know what I mean? Like an outside agency work that shows up and say, Hey, this is this, and they're like, you would never use that tool for that.

 

Robert Berkeley  21:30  

So the amount of content your department is producing is continuing to grow, right?

 

Wade Franks  21:35  

That's right. Especially in, in videos, every new product, and even some old ones get videos now. And it's, I mean, if you're interested in something , whatever it is, and you go look at that product, there better be a video or your something's wrong.

 

Robert Berkeley  21:51  

83 people? Are they? aAre they brand specific, these folks? Or do they work across brands?

 

Wade Franks  21:57  

It's a mix. I've got for my packaging and PLP and video creative. You know, I do have separate teams, I've got power tool people, and I've got outdoor people,

 

Robert Berkeley  22:08  

and how do you tie one together? How do you get everyone pulling together and knowing where the assets are? And knowing how the jobs are flowing and all that stuff?

 

Wade Franks  22:17  

Well, we've got, like I said, the account management. We've got people that do that the photo video people, they've got producers, which are, you know, scouting locations, and getting close and handling, you know, agents and all that kind of stuff. And we're actually looking at a whole new system now. That's totally on the cloud, all that kind of stuff. Can't place the name of it. But there were there's a couple that we're looking at now.

 

Robert Berkeley  22:48  

Okay, so that brings us up to today. And I guess what I always like to find out at the end, because we didn't find it out at the beginning was What does Wade Franks do when he's not managing this team of 83? creative and

 

Wade Franks  23:02  

Great. All right. Oh, gosh. Yeah, well, I'm on my third old house. So I do a lot of work on the house. So which is great, because I can use all these nice tools. Yeah.

 

Robert Berkeley  23:18  

Yeah. Basically, yeah, you eat your own dog food, as they say. So you're out there with the tools testing them out regularly.

 

Wade Franks  23:25  

And that's what's cool. what’s Wwhat's cool. There's a lot of guys here that do that. Yeah. And, and, and hey, you know what, I learned how to, you know, do this and this with this tool. And it was cool, but it would be better. If it had this, this or this. There's a lot of feedback. So we got a nice

 

Robert Berkeley  23:39  

a nice level, I guess.

 

Wade Franks  23:40  

Oh, they do the product. Guys Love, Love to hear it. And then right down the hall. Yeah. And I play a little bit of guitar. And yeah,

 

Robert Berkeley  23:50  

yeah. And don't you just play? 

 

Wade Franks  23:52

No, 

 

Robert Berkeley  23:53

when there's no one around. It's kind

 

Wade Franks  23:54  

It's kind of no one's around. And you know, I got invited to play in a kind of a garage thing. And

 

Robert Berkeley  24:01  

my ambition is to do all these podcasts and pick up a musician from each or music appreciated from each and then we'll have a gig at the end of the year at Oh, what

 

Wade Franks  24:09  

What do you play? Yeah, I

 

Robert Berkeley  24:101  

 Yeah, I sing and I played a guitarist in a band locally here in England and always, always happy to to pick up an instrument and show how terrible I am in front of other people. 

 

Wade Franks  24:20  

Cool.

 

Robert Berkeley  24:21 

 Well, wait, it's been an absolute delight. Thank you so much for your time. Before we go. I love to ask how can people get in contact with you way to ask more about your operation andthat

 

Wade Franks  24:32  

I barely tweet?

 

Robert Berkeley  24:34  

You do have email though. Right?

 

Wade Franks  24:36  

I do have emails you know, I'm on LinkedIn. I need to update that and Instagrams cool but, but but emails, emails

 

Robert Berkeley  24:43  

the best. Okay, so via LinkedIn, we can find you. And I just want to thank you once more for your time, Wade that's been super interesting and a wonderful story from from the fields of Texas by Germany to running some of the most famous brands creative operations.ity Thank you very much. WadeWait.

 

Wade Franks  25:01  

Thanks. All right, man.