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Robert Berkeley 0:02
Hey, faithful listeners far and wide. I sincerely hope you're enjoying this series of podcasts where we get to meet creative leaders who work directly for brands learn about how they got to where they did and understand what drives them. In this episode of Inside Jobs Inside jobs, we're in Atlanta, Georgia with Jarrett Jared King, who've recently moved from running the In House Team in house team at synchrony financial to another Atlanta stalwart Coca Cola, where she's tasting the feeling as the newly installed director of Coca Cola studios. Jarrett Jared King. Welcome to the Inside Jobs inside jobs podcast.

Jarrett King 0:31
Thank you, Robert. Thank you for inviting me. Well, before we get really started into this, I'm going to set these two dogs outside the door because they're panting at my feet. And I certainly don't want that picked up on the audience. Give me just

Robert Berkeley 0:43
a podcast once where a copy actually relieved itself during recording. They kept for For some reason, I

Jarrett King 0:48
Ohh No.don't know. Okay, well, let's not have that happen. Hang on just a moment. I'll be right back.

Robert Berkeley 0:54
Right, that was the dog. So before we start talking to Jarrett Jared, I must remind you that this would not be possible without the support of IHAF I have itself as well as the magnificent production team at Express KCS. Both indeed are working hard right now preparing for the IHAFI have conference scheduled for November the eighth and ninth in Boston, Massachusetts. We have someone else just joined us Emily foster from IHAFI have.

Emily fosterJarrett King 1:16
Hello, Robert. I'm happy to be here with you today.

Robert Berkeley 1:18
Me too, Emily? Because I think you're gonna tell us why you're not so bored at the moment. Is that right?

Emily fosterJarrett King 1:25
I am happy to do that. I can tell you a little bit about all the planning that the IHAFI have team is doing right now for the IHAFI have conference and award show. Go on then sell it, sell it to me. Yeah. So our conference agenda is going to be packed with keynote speakers, panels, breakout sessions and you know, 250 brands across the country that will join us a lot of their leadership and executives will be in the room. And it's a great place for In House Agency in house agency professionals to network and get to know one another that IHAF I have community is so warm and welcoming. And really one of my favourite things about that IHAF I have conference is seeing the relationships that form among those each year in the community and just seeing everyone come back together again after a year and embracing each other and being really happy to be there.

Robert Berkeley 2:12
And they still talk to each other even after the award ceremony that you run right?

Emily foster Jarrett King 2:15
Yeah, even after the award show when we announced the winners of our creative awards for the year and our In House Agency in house agency of the year winner which is one of our most prestigious awards, they are still happy for one another and although those who go home with more gold trophies might have a little bit more of a smile on their face on day two of the event but everyone really enjoys the creativity and enjoy celebrating it

Robert Berkeley 2:39
so for the awards is it close for entries now?

Emily foster Jarrett King 2:42
The IHAFI have a warrant is closed for entries but In House Agency in house agency of the year is still accepting nominations through September so folks who have a story to tell should certainly log on and and submit their nomination for that award.

Robert Berkeley 2:55
Okay, do you have to be an IHAF AI half member to do that or indeed to come to the conference? No, we

Emily foster Jarrett King 2:59
No, we welcome In House Agencies in house agencies and In House Agency in house agency professionals from companies who aren't members temples and during our wards as well as attend our events and our three keynote speakers. I'll mention those folks. We have Teresa Hurd, who is VP and global creative director of Intel Alvarado, Luke, president of avocados from Mexico and Maggie Foxx, who CMO cmo at global force. When when is it and where is it again? Thethe IHAF I have conference and award show this year will be held in Boston on November 8 and ninth and we're hosting it at the Aloft a loft Hotel in the seaport. so you're

Robert Berkeley 3:31
November and where do they go to find out more. for folks

Emily foster Jarrett King 3:34
For folks who want to learn more about the event or register they can visit our website at IHAForum.org/conference i h a forum.org forward slash conference.

Robert Berkeley 3:42
Emily thank you very much indeed lovely to speak to you.

Jarrett King 3:45
Thank you Robert.

Robert Berkeley 3:46
If you've not yet got your ticket, but let me warn you your career will suffer and you'll find others fast overtaking you on the corporate ladder so get one now.

Jarrett King 3:56
Alright all right so I've come upstairs and I'm not normally upstairs in the House house and so that they are a little bit out of sorts with me.

Robert Berkeley 4:03
Wellwell it's nice to catch up with you because we met at last November's IHAF I have conference I think Didn't we?

Jarrett King 4:09
Yes Yes we did. I enjoyed a nice conversation.

Robert Berkeley 4:12
So it's yeah so this is this is obviously happened very quickly because now it's June of the World Cups going on for those into soccer and a great deal of time has passed and a great deal of time has passed for you and it's been pretty eventful for you hasn't it? I think the past six months

Jarrett King 4:26
Yeah, yeah. Some some definitive changes. The primary one being my employment I have. I have since moved on from synchrony financial and I'm now leading a team at Coca Cola.

Robert Berkeley 4:39
Coca Cola is this Coca Cola studios?

Jarrett King 4:42
It is Coca Cola studios is one of several different design teams in place at headquarters of Coca Cola. And I've taken the role as director of Coca Cola studios as of March and this particular team is really largely focused on the Global internal communications initiatives for Coca Cola. Global. Okay,

Robert Berkeley 5:04
Okay, well, we'll come back to how that came to be. But first of all, congratulations. I mean, there are a few. There are a few more iconic brands and Coca Cola in the whole world. Right? Correct. And do you manage to stay in Atlanta?

Jarrett King 5:18
I did. Yes. It's, it's nice to have a company that I've been a big fan of their products my whole life. So it's a it's a bit of I have to pinch myself some days to realise that I am at the World Headquarters of Coca Cola, but really neat place to be.

Robert Berkeley 5:30
really neat place to be? Well, the picture of you on LinkedIn has shows you grasping a bottle of Coca Cola with with such strength, but no one's going to prise it out of your hands. So trust, that's a metaphor for your career coming forward.. Forward.

Jarrett King 5:43
Yeah, I really wanted that coke actually.

Robert Berkeley 5:47
So So what I want to do is, as I so often do with our guests, is to go back to the beginning and just just ask you, where did you spring from Jarrett Jared? Where did where were we born and brought up?

Jarrett King 5:58
Where did where were we born and brought up? Well, I was originally born in Virginia, and have really was raised in the southeastern United States kind of grew up in in a number of different states all over the southeast, spent a lot of time in Columbia, South Carolina. And that's where I actually got my undergraduate degree in journalism. And it was it was an emphasis in advertising and public relations, stayed there for a brief time after college and moved to Atlanta in 2000. So I have been in Atlanta, longer than I actually was in Columbia.

Robert Berkeley 6:29
Okay. All right. But the apple hasn't rolled too far from the tree by the sound of it.

Jarrett King 6:33
Yeah, not too far. You know, it was one of those things of if you you're gonna have opportunity in the southeast, probably Atlanta is one of the largest cities if not the largest city in the southeast to do that.

Robert Berkeley 6:43
Well, though, you probably pretty much work through all of the major brands and agencies headquartered in that area, I

Jarrett King 6:50
think, a good number taking them off. Yeah, yeah, I originally came came in 2000, to work for sapient at probably the worst possible time to come to work for a technology company. That was the bubble burst in 2000. And

Robert Berkeley 7:03
So so you went digital with Fabian,

Jarrett King 7:05
I was yes, they had just acquired studio archetype of fairly renowned digital agency at the time. And and we're in the process of incorporating that capability into their larger breadth of work. And I was hired as a creative lead. Pretty much project managing creative projects. That's really where my that's my discipline of choice. I, I've done account and project management, and did that for the first half of my career in a number of different environments, including a university, small agencies, large agencies, and eventually In House in house for clients.

Robert Berkeley 7:41
So when you were young, before you went to university, what was your What did you think you were going to be doing?

Jarrett King 7:45
You know, I initially started out with a degree in criminal justice thinking I wanted to be an attorney. Right prosecution or defence? I wasn't sure I just had this insane sense of justice that needed to be acted

Robert Berkeley 7:58
to be acted on now. Right.

Jarrett King 8:02
Designed toss that out the window.

But no, I? Yeah. That was my that was my initial track was the criminal justice realm, and then I moved into journalism directly from there.

Robert Berkeley 8:14
Okay. Did you get a chance to practice to journalism? Or did that move more into marketing quite quickly?

Jarrett King 8:19
Um, you know, I didn't in the traditional sense of journalism know, in the college that I went to journalism represented a lot of different you could go broadcast, you could go public relations and advertising, magazine production. There were lots of different options within journalism it

Robert Berkeley 8:34
Okay, and which one? Did you go down? Sorry,

Jarrett King 8:37
I went advertising and public relations with a minor in marketing. Now,

Robert Berkeley 8:41
Now, what drove you down there, then what right?

Jarrett King 8:43
Yeah, I suppose I was drawn to that. You know, one of the things that really always piqued my curiosity was consumer behaviour, you know, wondering why people walk down a grocery store aisle and choose one product over another. I knew there was also a psychology behind it. And I think that was really the appeal of the world of advertising. I really came out of school, thinking that I was going to go be an account executive. And that's largely what the programme I attended was training students to do is to go into the world into advertising agencies and work on the strategic account side of the business.

Robert Berkeley 9:16
of the business. You clearly were interested in what drives people's decisions, whether that decision is the outcome of a criminal trial or whether that's the outcome of a purchase decision.

Jarrett King 9:26
Yeah, human behaviour at the end of it is, is probably a big driver behind both.

Robert Berkeley 9:32
You studied communications, I guess, and interested in marketing communications. You got to sapient at a very turbulent time. What happened then then? how well,

Jarrett King 9:42
How well, they left me I think I was last in first out kind of situation having been only hired in January of 2000 and found myself laid off for the first time in my career the following year and ended up landing at Georgia State University here in Atlanta in their digital The design department, I didn't know it at the time, but I really was building an In House Agency in house agency wouldn't find out about that term, or what it meant for a number of years later, tried to bring some consistency. And we ended up implementing the very first content management system rolled out at the enterprise levels that are universal. And what that was, was red.it It was an attempt to make web maintenance very easy for the lay person.

Robert Berkeley 10:23
So you moved on from there, you went to Web MD, and what was your role there?,

Jarrett King 10:27
I was a producer there doing basically dealing with sponsored content, programmes for Web MD, I was there in just a very short time as my kind of reentry from leaving the university and and completing my master's degree there, which, which they, you know, so kindly paid for, during my tenure, I decided to pursue Organisational Behaviour. After seeing that a lot of my clients in in the world I had lived in with digital up to date, were really trying to throw technology at people problems. So often, they were trying to solve some sort of process problem that really needed to be solved in the real world with real people first, and then technology applied. And so you know, I figured if I was at Georgia State, I was going to try to to leverage their business college and I did.

Robert Berkeley 11:16
So so so your your interests, about behaviour and so on, and marketing is starting to crystallise now and build around the burgeoning digital world and the new skills that we're having to be learned there as well as you moved on beyond there to come to an agency I think, and then on to Phillips, is that right?

Jarrett King 11:33
Yeah, you know, is it a couple of the boutique agencies in Atlanta aquarium is one here, was there briefly IQ agency also. And yeah, eventually made my way to Philips design, which was an interesting sort of entry point into the In House in house world because Philips design is kind of operated or was operated at the time, like a subsidiary of the larger Philips electronics and had offices all over the globe, that sort of served as In House Agency in house agency, a number of different interesting social disciplines to inform design. We had an anthropologist, for example, in that team, and sometimes there were psychologists, not necessarily Philips, but in other companies like this. And they

Robert Berkeley 12:18
And they made a genuine contribution to what was going on there?

Jarrett King 12:21
They did they did it was it was really, you know, it was about insight driven design, it was about going out and conducting this qualitative work, research, product design, and web design, digital design was was all new to me. And just, of course, kind of a combination of all those interests for me of human behaviour. And the innovation process that Philips was able to get out of out of this approach was, was very well respected.

Robert Berkeley 12:52
Is it still going as a thing that Philips have this agency that still works for the clients?

Jarrett King 12:57
I'm not sure I have lost touch. And I don't know how I know, Philips was always a design led company. And that was something that I truly, it was one of the best experiences of my career.

Robert Berkeley 13:08
Yeah. Well, if there's anyone listening to the podcast, I mean, head over to inside jobs podcast.org and drop me a line because from Philips, that is who can let us know whether it's still going still going strong. So that was 10 years ago, and you obviously had a couple of other positions to limit the Atlanta area up until synchrony, right? And what were you doing at synchrony?,

Jarrett King 13:31
It it was quite a time to be there in quite a time to be in design, because it was it was really fascinating to watch the birth of a new brand. You Instrumental in the birth of the brand. We my team was not we were tangentially involved the company made the decision to hire an external agency to actually develop the the identity. My team played a fairly significant role in taking that that work the the logo and the the initial brand guidelines developed by that agency and and rolling that out.

Robert Berkeley 14:01
Was there an In House Agency in house agency for you to pick up?

Jarrett King 14:04
There was a small team, yes, it was not really formalised as sort of theIn House Agency in house agency, and it was operating as a cost centre and was not doing a very good job covering its cost of operation despite the charge back and there were, you know, upon entering, I discovered many of the reasons why that was and set about correcting that.

Robert Berkeley 14:27
So that what were the principal reasons, then? This is as an aside, Jerry, if you'd have given obviously,

Jarrett King 14:33
I think, you know, it was largely there were a couple of key factors, I think, number one, at 27 people, it was still a fully outsourced solution. So you know, the financial model wasn't working there from from a salary and headcount standpoint. And there were also some challenges with not having the right tools, the tool, there was a tool in place for time tracking, but the adoption of it was fairly low and the accuracy of the data being collected was was not good, how much of the team team's effort was was going against actual project work. And that was the number one piece of information I needed to know to start getting things corrected.

Robert Berkeley 15:10
corrected with With these problems very obvious to you. And more importantly, with the solutions to the problems very obvious to you?.

Jarrett King 15:16
I don't know, too, I just mentioned where we're very obvious. And, you know, within the first those, those were two things that I tackled within the first six months, we actually finished that year, paying for ourselves. So having been in the in the hole, about half a million dollars in June, we made some substantial progress toward correcting that and getting the full cost recovery by the end of the year with just good just kind of focusing on those two elements alone. Then sort of the work of transforming the team again, I kind of look at it in two phases, it was sort of rehabilitation. And I think the transformations never really done honestly. So you know, I spent the next three years after sort of getting in there and getting things stabilised. It was sort of a lucky break that the that the IPO occurred because we went from being a tiny team and a 340,000 plus person operation globally, do

Robert Berkeley 16:10
Do they provide an a on A or role for synchrony? Or is that still separate, but they they they have some sort of mandated place.,

Jarrett King 16:16
Tthere's no mandate in place. And I actually they did serve sort of an unofficial agency of record role with the the banks and my team provided all of the print and digital advertising for the bank. And that's actually one of the places that they were recognised the most.

Robert Berkeley 16:33
When I met you, you were at synchrony. And we were having a roundtable conversation about design thinking, you had some pretty robust views on it. Can you explain a little better? What your concerns or objections are with design thinking?

Jarrett King 16:50
Yeah, you know, it's, well, first want to say that, you know, my concerns are less about the actual world of design thinking, I think that it's been a very, a very good thing, in a lot of ways. My challenges with with the the discipline, if you will, of design thinking or the methods is that a lot of companies, I think, invested time and sending business folks to training on this topic and brought it back into organisations and didn't quite know how to roll it out, sometimes leads to is an assumption that you know, enough about the user or the customer through through your own empathy as a surrogate user or customer, that you don't actually have to go talk to them. And I think that's a big part of what I have done in a lot of the most successful design teams, I've been a part of his, his lead programmes and projects that include the end user or the consumer, the person that you are actually designing for, and leaving, that is in the form of focus groups

Robert Berkeley 17:51
that is in the form of focus groups or in the in the forms of just consumer research or just in the form of experiencing being a consumer.

Jarrett King 17:58
It's not focus groups, I think there's an it's an, it's important to distinguish I think in focus groups, there's there's a tendency to fall on focus groups, because they're, they're known and established and have been around a long time. But I think what you lose in that is the ability to really deep dive with an individual and and to ensure that individuals are willing to talk with you in a group setting that can sometimes be challenging, so with the environment that the customer or user, etc, might might live in, or play in or operate in on a daily basis and observing that behaviour firsthand, rather than simply empathising and imagining what that behaviour would be. You know, I think that focus groups are the equivalent of an in person survey. In a lot of ways, yes.

Robert Berkeley 18:41
You're requiring people to answer things and when they've never thought about them, and probably, you know, not able to necessarily articulate what they would feel in the out in the wild. But on the other hand, you know, design thinking surely allows you to build a creative operation within the strictures of a corporation and corporations are, of course, extremely accountable in terms of, obviously money, but also time and process and so on. And isn't design thinking a way of, of trying to get the best from creatives while ensuring they work within that formal environment?

Jarrett King 19:19
My observation is there's a general drive in most businesses today to to be faster to work smarter to work leaner, and harder. And and get to market faster. There's just so much change happening so rapidly design thinking has sort of morphed into becoming owned by the actual technology teams that are that are sort of introducing the Agile framework. And it's so interesting to see how that's been usurped away from designers and into IT it as a way to try to move faster but yet so yeah, I think that companies do have have a need to see that design teams are operating as rapidly as possible and I think the question is whether design thinking is the right solution for that. So

Robert Berkeley 20:03
So for the sake of our lovely listeners listening to the Inside Jobs inside jobs podcast, just just define agile in the terms that you understand it and Gosh, because because because your your, your You seem to be saying, agile, to process orientated to get the best from creatives. I think that's what you're saying. So, so define what you mean by agile in this context.

Jarrett King 20:22
The definition would be and from my perspective, yeah, quick quick sprints or stories as they might refer to them in the in the method where small pieces of functionality are introduced very rapidly and then iterated over time. So we might release one Dotto and then two weeks later to Dotto three Dotto etc, etc. Through these rapid Sprint's of, of development and quick release and launch of new functionality.

Robert Berkeley 20:51
And I certainly know for us upfront development that we do it Express KCS we develop our media ferry system or whatever, we use this. And it's actually proved hugely effective. But you have a concern with it in a in a creative environment.

Jarrett King 21:06
I think it puts the onus on the user to be patient and to wait for that next release. And and I think one of the challenges is you often hear in an agile world, the mention of MVP, the minimum viable product. And I think what often happens is the V part of that what some teams have done is made the mistake of assuming something as viable when it may not be talking about design led development, which to me almost indicates a return back to a partnership between design and development. I think developers rightfully so have felt left out of the design process through probably processes and methodologies that were not designed to include them. And I'm trying to fortunately.

Robert Berkeley 21:49
We we do we in our in our teams, we we absolutely have UX design as part of it. And so I hadn't thought maybe we're at the leading edge of Express KCS? I don't know not sure.

Jarrett King 22:01
I think it's kind of common, I think it's common to see the UX and UI designers. I think that started to happen a number of years ago. But I think design and thinking about it holistically goes beyond I think UX and UI design are some of the ones I've actually been interviewing some recently. And I have sent some frustration in some of them in the fact that they are in these teams and don't feel like they have the space to do the work that they want to do that the Agile methodology is, is pushing too fast to really think holistically about the design solution.

Robert Berkeley 22:33
Yeah, and I think a similar point to that one of the things I've noticed is that we have to make a very concerted effort to ensure that those UX UI designers are close to our customers as well, and the people use the actual users. So talking about research earlier on. So it seems that you don't have a design background as such, clearly, from what from what you've told us.

Jarrett King 22:54
told us, you You know, I just happened to have spent my whole career leading creative teams and projects and process and come out of a project management background, which is a little unusual to find people who've spent a career managing from that perspective. So I think In House Agencies in house agencies are often led by either a creative director who is struggling, because that creative director really wants to focus on the creative and less on the business operation. Or you'll have someone from finance or business administration coming in that really doesn't know anything about creative trying to lead those teams. And neither of those things, in my experience work out very well.

Robert Berkeley 23:34
You help people that are not necessarily structured and methodical in their approach become structured and methodical, or do you do essentially put a blanket around them and interface with corporate while allowing them to work in the way that gets best results from them?

Jarrett King 23:49
Do the blocking and tackling if you will, to clear the roadblocks and protect the creative process and allow creative teams to do their best work. It's having a deep understanding of what that takes and having watched the struggle. I don't think it's a one person job. And I think that's been the challenge. I think most companies are trying to bring in one person that can do it all. And I think if you're going to get it right you need you need someone very focused on the business and operation side of of the operation and you need very strong Creative Leadership on the other side, making sure that that work is is from a creative perspective. Absolutely. The best it can be.

Robert Berkeley 24:30
So you allow the creatives though to throw their toys all over the playroom floor. And you know, as long as they tidy up afterwards, right?

Jarrett King 24:37
At the end of the day, there is accountability. We are even in my current operation at coke where we're, we're a cost centre so we do charge back and you know, that's where I think you know, if the creative director wants to let everyone throw their toys all over the floor, sure, go do it. But I'm the one going we need to pick this up a little bit. Clean up your room.

Robert Berkeley 24:58
So so that brings Was neatly to the Coca Cola company, then you mentioned it a couple of times there. So, when you got to Coca Cola, you said that you are managing the Coca Cola studios, which is about internal global communications, that's a big remit. Is this a new department or one that needs shaping in a different image or what?

Jarrett King 25:18
It's not a new group, either. The group that I've kind of inherited has has been around in multiple different forms for many years. I don't know exactly how long but but perhaps decades, there's been some some reorganisation going on some teams have come together and then disbanded. There's just been a lot of change occurring in the team. And I think what I've walked into is, together, but apart in some ways, and and so I think what needs to happen now is to is to really unite the team around a common sense of purpose and why why we exist and to elevate the work, I think the talent is, is is there, it just needs to be mined, and, and perhaps reintroduced to the organisation for what it is capable of doing.

Robert Berkeley 26:06
What's your approach, Jarrett Jared, when you when you join a company? Do you go like a bull in a china shop to show when you can make a difference? Or do you sit quietly for six months? And then just kind of fire everyone and start again? Or do you do you just do to come in and just start tweaking the controls as soon as you find them and develop things along the way?

Jarrett King 26:23
Yeah, I suppose there's some of that I, you know, I've just crossed my 90 day mark. And I think still learning, I think part of the process has to be, you know, first and foremost, similar to what I did with synchrony is, is looking at the financial performance, I think usually, that's the biggest pain point. The second 30 days was really about looking at project management within this organisation and proving the value of that and elevating that role a bit and making sure that the right people are in that role is really important. And that's part of what you know, I'm looking at and and also looked at at synchrony when I came in. And the the final component, I think, then is with those two things sort of looked at and deeply evaluated, then looking at, are we structured correctly, whether it's are the team structured? Do we have the right people, all of those questions come into play? And and then starting to look at, if if we don't, what is this process necessary to correct that?

Robert Berkeley 27:22
Well, it sounds like a whole lot of fun. It really does cook colour. And as I said, before, you know, this is a company that literally, you know, billions of people around the world engage with all the time. And you have the opportunity to make a difference there with the way the company operates internally through through turbulent times as well, of course, right? I mean, the whole, the whole way in which the industry is viewed by consumers at large is changing, of course, and, and Coca Cola will will no doubt prove, you know why it's been at the top for so many years, by the way it responds to them.

Jarrett King 27:54
Yeah, yeah. It's, it's fascinating to work for, they're not many companies out there that have been around for 130 plus years, and reinvention and finding new ways to do things and continuing to grow and change. And I think I think you can only survive if you always evolve. So I think I think coke has that mentality. And certainly I'm coming in with that mentality with with this team.

Robert Berkeley 28:16
And have they given you keys to the safe with the secret recipe and

Jarrett King 28:19
I can tell you, but I'd have to take steps to protect that at all costs.

Robert Berkeley 28:25
Okay, interesting. So Jarrett Jared, we learned about your career. But we haven't learned so much about you personally. There what's what do you do in your in your in your downtime there? What's your what's your passion, apart from the two golden retrievers?

Jarrett King 28:39
Oh, wow. Well, the Golden Retrievers of course are near and dear. What do I spend my free time doing? I love to play team trivia and and i also, I'm a big fan of all manner of board games and games. And I've recently gotten into the age old game of bridge. So believe it or not, I think I'm the youngest player in my

Robert Berkeley 29:03
Soso are you reading anything at the moment that we ought to know about?

Jarrett King 29:07
Reading reading a book by by the facilitator of the of the workshop called hostage at the table. And it's all about he's written a book about using hostage his experience in hostage negotiation to improve leadership. Okay, this

Robert Berkeley 29:21
Okay, this is no reflection on your current position.

29:23
Not at all. I

Robert Berkeley 29:25
I trust. Good. Excellent. Well, this has been absolutely fascinating Jarrett Jared, and I'm sure anyone who's listening to this will have far more questions and far better questions. I know that you're going to be at the IHAF conference in November or not.

Jarrett King 29:33
know that you're going to be at the I have conference in November and I am I am already registered. Everyone should get registered now. There's a change of venue so get on so

Robert Berkeley 29:43
that's right. Don't stay in the revere. So obviously, the listeners can can mob you there if they want to speak to you but in the interim, how can they get hold of you?

Jarrett King 29:54
I would say the best way is probably my email address, which is just my first name Jarrett@jarrettking . Do you AR ar e TT at Jarrett King, my first and last name King.com k i n g.com.

Robert Berkeley 30:06
That straightforward, but your career has has been very storied. And I want to thank you very much for your time today.

Jarrett King 30:14
Thank you, Robert. It's been my pleasure.

Robert Berkeley 30:16
Now I was looking at the website Inside Jobs inside jobs podcast.org and I read that this is Episode Seven Would you believe and I want to thank you, my listeners for the encouragement and support you've been giving me along the way. Now if you want to do a random act of kindness, lend your support by recommending this podcast to your friends, your colleagues or your parents or if you're looking for an excuse to get back in contact with them. an ex partner. Of course, only do that once you've hit the subscribe button on Apple, iTunes, Spotify or whichever find platform you choose to get your podcasts.