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EPISODE 34

The Accidental Tourist

TRANSCRIPT

Note: This is an AI-generated transcript and may have transcription errors. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Robert Berkeley  0:02  

Hello, and welcome once again to Iinside Jjobs, the regular podcast where we meet creative leaders and try and find out what makes them tick. Brought to you by IHAFI have the leading professional association for in house agencies and Eexpress KCS, the content production provider that's at the ready to meet in house agencies creative production needs. Now, Laurie Sharda, apparently didn't have a plan. Well, if that's true, that goes to show that being an accidental tourist can still really get you places. She's worked for herself. She's worked for consumer brands, she's started an agency, and she's worked for some of the biggest b2b brands you can imagine. talented, creative, she seems to effortlessly navigate large corporations, and has done so very successfully, as you're going to hear, Laurie Welcome to Inside jobs. Yeah, that's great. Robert, however, you say it's fine. I think we go by Humana here in the States, we had a call a little while ago, just to discuss this interview, and you call yourself an accidental tourist. And I'm, I'm really keen to find out more about why but but just before we do, can you just quickly tell us where you're working? What you do, Laurie? Yeah, I am Associate Vice President at Humana. And I run the in house agency that we call Tthe Hhive. Been here about two and a half years now. And I think we've been through a lot of changes in the marketing organisation, including my team. So it's been a it's been quite a journey over the last two and a half years. But it's great to be a part of a network that's growing and changing and trying to make an influence on the healthcare healthcare industry. Yeah, absolutely. How big is the team you've got now? We're 55 full time, but we have a variable staff that fluctuates with demand. I don't know how many contractors we have on board right now. Probably about six, seven at any given time. And you're covering the full works from strategy through to production. Yeah, we don't do a lot of television broadcasting. I mean, we do that's not really our wheelhouse, or our sweet spot. But we do pretty much everything else. And I think as it relates to brand, I mean, that's that's our core focus is building the brand identity and managing the portfolio. Yeah, yeah. Okay. All right. Well, that's a big job. And I'm looking forward to getting tucked into that later on. But before we do that, as is traditional on inside job, so I want to pop you in the Wayback Machine. Although I'm hesitant to say half way back. We're gonna go Please don't

 

Laurie Schiada  2:29  

tell the young Laurie and just curious where what environment was. Were you growing up in? Laurie, tell us tell us a bit about that. Yeah. I mean, it's always a fun fact. I think to start, I'm number eight of nine kids. So I waslet OhWhoa, that's a story. That's right.

 

  2:45  

Story. Oh, yeah. So I like to see I was born into a team. I think the team construct is pretty comfortable for me. But I was also part of the younger part. And yet, I'm told by my siblings, I was fairly bossy. So I think

 

Robert Berkeley  3:00  

I think you kind of have to be to get Oh, yeah.

 

  3:05  

Oh, yeah. So that's I'm a native Southern California. And I'm, I'm a transfertransplant here in in Lobel with the job at Humana but I'm born and raised in California, Surf City, is where my whatword I call home. Huntington Beach.

 

Robert Berkeley  3:20  

So you're a keen surfer? Oh, gosh, no,

 

  3:22  

Oh, gosh, no, but I am. I wish that I were a surfer. I think I tried when I was younger. But getting up on that board and the upper body strength required to do the paddling didn't prove to be my strength.

 

Robert Berkeley  3:35  

So what was your strength when you are growing up in?

 

 3:37  

Alright, well, I was obviously very artistic as a kid. I was in musical theatre, I thought that was going to actually be my purpose in life was to sing and perform on the stage. And then I found graphic design and my plans changed. But that was that was the original intention for Southern California and performance. I

 

Robert Berkeley  3:56  

for Southern California and performance. I mean, it's Hollywood surely back and didn't

 

  3:58  

Yeah, I was actually more drawn to the theatre aspects of it even though I ended up in entertainment with with Disney. But yeah, I think for the passion for performing and creating, I think was was ingrained at a very young age.

 

Robert Berkeley  4:13  

Yeah, again, probably as a result of coming from a large family, I would think,

 

  4:16  

I would think, yeah, both my parents were pretty artistic. I mean, my mom was a great painter. My dad could build anything with his hands. So I was I was profoundly influenced influenced by that. For sure.

 

Robert Berkeley  4:26  

And what what did they do just out of curiosity to sustain such a large family?

 

  4:29  

You know, I think they believe that they like to keep us busy. There's a lot of crazy projects, creative projects, when I was growing up, you know, full blown haunted houses and Fourth of July floats and just crazy stuff that normal people don't do but I didn't know that was not normal. That was just part of the the normal way that we did but my mom was just saying no, she knew where we were, we were out in the garage. We're building something we had most of the neighbourhood hung out at our place for those types of You know, fun experiences, I guess?

 

Robert Berkeley  5:02  

Well, every family is weird. And it's not until you get acquainted with other families. You realise how weird Iran is. And I'm speaking from experience here. So so you, you had this artistic leaning early on, and you went to college and studied designed to do or you wanted to be a fine artists? Oh, well, what was the direction? You thought you'd strike?

 

5:21  

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. When I applied to Art Centre, I was an Art Centre graduate in Pasadena, California, I thought it would be an illustrator. And I grew up wanting to draw, you know, animated characters. And I think that was really the first time I'd heard about graphic design. And they pointed me in that direction. And that's the that's the path I ultimately took. I said, graphics and packaging designer. I graduated with a degree in both from Art Centre.

 

Robert Berkeley  5:46  

Right, right. Okay, so what was the packaging as well? So what was this just because you were steered in that direction? Or you Wait, did you have your sights set on anything I

 

  5:55  

I did. I mean, oddly enough, I didn't end up in a career that, that started in packaging, but I've always loved the dimensional aspects of design. And I tap into that all the time, I think just learning how to design in three dimensions. And, you know, looking at the experience from multiple angles, that's something I still do every day.

 

Robert Berkeley  6:17  

And so you're an admirer of the supermarket shelving, and I am sometimes

 

 6:21  

the psychology where things are placed. And yeah, I still really, really enjoy packaging and all kinds of, you know, dimensional design. I think it's it's quite fun.

 

Robert Berkeley  6:32  

I think it now is a super exciting time and packaging as well. But given given the effort to reduce waste, given the efforts to either not use plastic or use appropriate plastics, and there's massive challenges for the creatives there. Yeah. It's an exciting time for sure. So your the early part of your career, you seem to have mostly gone kind of freelance really working for a number of people. Was that was that? Was that a useful experience for you? Yeah, I

 

6:56  

Yeah, I mean, right out of school, I landed my dream job right out of school. I mean, Saul Bass was one of the legendary pioneers of graphic design. And I thought I'd died and gone to heaven there. And I got really good fundamental training in brand expression. And, you know, really understanding how to build standards from one of the individuals who pioneered standards design. So how did you get the role lab? And

 

Robert Berkeley  7:22  

how did you get the role lab? And how did that come out? That

 

7:23  

That was one of the byproducts of going to a fancy school, because they had connections, and they arranged an interview with some of the students there. So I was fortunate enough to get recommended for that interview and landed that position.

 

Robert Berkeley  7:38  

Cool site. So you had a good apprenticeship did? It did so what made you brave enough to strike out on your own?

 

 7:45  

Well, I think, you know, oddly enough, I'm a down Southern California native and southern and northern California could largely be considered different states. So I never really got into the LA scene. And I really wanted to get back down to Southern California and kind of explore what was down there. And so I ended up venturing out on my own and ended up in the reason, I would say the first aspect of the entertainment industry, I guess, would be the restaurant industry. And that was at a time when again, tapping into my packaging background, the structural design aspects of real estate collateral, surprisingly, was in its heyday, when to sale. This was a point of sale brochures, but everything was quite structural and fancy, very different than it is today. But it was a super fun time. And I and I ended up enjoying working for a lot of key agencies out in in the LA and Orange County area. And I really enjoyed the exploration of that. I think that it helped expose me to like, what direction that I really want to take my career at that point.

 

Robert Berkeley  8:55  

Didn't feel quite brave, though, because you were quite young and newly out of college and and looking, you know, looking back at the time, did you feel you are being brave and looking back the way you bring? No,

 

9:05  

I think I was egotistical and arrogant. I think, you know, I was so young. And I thought, well, you know, I

 

 9:12  

No, I think I was egotistical and arrogant. I think, you know, I was so young. And I thought, well, you know, I can do this on my own. But you know, honestly, When I got down to Orange County, I started interviewing around, they're like, you should try venturing out on your own. And I'm like, Oh, well, that's interesting. And I did place an ad in prevailing industry standard book at the time called the workbook is a digital experience with that now, but that ad really garnered me the rest of my career. That's how Disney found me. I did a couple of jobs for them. And then within a matter of months, Disney kind of consumed my whole repertoire. And over the course of a few years, they finally convinced me to come full time. So you know I think that was

 

Robert Berkeley  9:49  

just just to dig into that a little bit. So you placed an ad some person looking for somebody at Disney saw the ad they were they were looking for someone and you you you take by that time it Sounds like you were taking even though you're still quite young, you you ticked a lot of boxes in terms of the the the level of the areas of design you are comfortable in. Obviously this is pre digital. And you say that they they're more or less consumed. So what how did that come about? Was it one person just kept using you or your name spread within Disney or what.one

 

 10:17  

little bit above? I think that, you know, the way that Disney was organised at the time was by properties. I don't know, I don't know how they do it today. But I started working on their sports properties. So at the time, they had gone through the acquisition of some of the sports brand. First, they were partnering and then later when I got when I was on staff, they actually acquired the ABC, and ESPN franchises and then the sports team, so Tthe Anaheim Angels and Tthe Anaheim Ducks, that all became part of a new portfolio. Well, I came on early on just because I was a good logo designer. And I think that's how they found me the ad that I placed was was largely that I mean, it was almost 100% logos and a few packaging designs. So the Consumer Products Division is the one that tapping and then once you're in there Disney and you do a reasonable job, I guess they continue to call you back. And you know, their work is so expansive that there's never there's never a never ending supply of things to be done there. So

 

Robert Berkeley  11:15  

So did you did you learn anything as a as a freelancer about how to make sure that, you know, people had your phone number or email address now in a company like that?

 

11:24  

Yeah, you know, obviously, again, this is the accidental tourist part of it, I probably should have been more intentional. I mean, you look back and you say, Well, I might have wanted to work a little bit harder to network. But I guess I've just always been so focused on the work. And for me, it's, you know, trying to show up in ways that make you valuable, I think just just lending yourself to the task at hand. And that has served me well. I don't know if it's the right way to go. But it served me particularly well. I'm really passionate about what I do. And I really like to dig in to a project. I'd like to call myself an immersive designer. So you know, when I came in, I knew nothing about consumer products. I knew nothing about retail. And I learned a lot on the job for sure. But I also was, you know, just kind of insatiably curious. I think at the time, you know, Disney was great, because everyone there was talented and it was it was a little bit like an extension of my experience at Art Centre, where you're just surrounded by a lot of really awesome creative people. And you know, so you want to continue to do your best. It's a little bit competitive. It's a little bit of the deepest Thunderdome, at the same time, largely just an amazing growth experience for me, and the company was growing. I mean, most people think of Disney, they think Mickey Mouse or the Fab Five, or they think who I did, too. And I thought, well, that's what I really want to work on. But I started my journey with some of these, what I would call new brand initiatives for them, they were tapping into new segments, new audiences, I think their their audience segment is largely girl focused. And at the time they were exploring preteen versus the you know, more the toddler three to eight, sort of their sweet spot three to eight year old girls. So you know, they were exploring boys were in a sports or a lot of things that they were trying to see how far the brand could stretch and in what ways it would be a good fit. And I ended up kind of be in the techie edgy boy, person and work on a lot of the early properties for gargoyles was one of the key properties that I did freelance and then ultimately got hired on to expand that standard and that style guide for that particular TV property.

 

Robert Berkeley  13:37  

So but in the end, you certainly weren't working for free cuz you got a job there. And you ended up as creative director.,

 

13:43  

That Aas a design manager, and then design director and then creative director in in short order. And, you know, I got into some different market segments, I got into more classic brands, the Mickey andin the poop, but again, you know, kind of carving out new directions with preteen and new expressions of those characters, I think was really one of the highlights of my time there along with, you know, adults, how can you make more wearable merchandise for four adults? So those were things that I think were new for me. So I'm always always curious about things where I can have something to give and have something to learn. Those are really attractive experiences for me and they've always pulled me in the gravitational pull of that is is how I've really made the choices in my career.

 

Robert Berkeley  14:32  

Disney is famously prescriptive when it comes to how the brand is expressed. And as a creative person. Did you find that challenging or did you find that helpful?

 

 14:42  

I think it's, it's important, I think the in order to maintain the integrity of the characters in the brand, you have to have a fair amount of rigour but I also was in the role in the brands that I was leading, I had to press the envelope so I had quite a few conversations. Negotiations if you'll call it that with with corporate and legal to help them understand, you know, how do we maintain the trademarks. I mean, at the end of the day, some of the work we were doing in pre teen, for example, was pretty progressive at the time. And, you know, characters were unrecognisable. But you know, my job was just to kind of explore the realm and, you know, work through the channels internally to get the approvals and get the buy in on the strategy. And, you know, syrup from an audience point of view. So you know, at the time, Paul Frank was really, really huge. Lot of the Japanese character animations were also a huge influence with the direction that we put took in the preteen market.,

 

Robert Berkeley  15:41  

Bbut you were creating new things. You weren't necessarily adapting existing things. And you wouldn't be messing around with Mickey now, would you? Well, we actually did I mean, some of those characterizations are Yeah, it was Mickey. And these are people's childhoods, your meal

 

 15:55  

It was fun. It was fun to do a lot of stylized characters. For the for the product, I think that's one way to keep the product fresh. Rather than just putting the traditional Mickey in a in a new pose or a new construct, I think it was, we had a lot of fun. I think exploring the boundaries of what the characters, what are the essential elements, the art of reduction, that's one of the things I learned at Saul Bass that carried over has carried me through, like the art of reduction, how much can you simplify that character and still retain its trademark elements so that people recognise it and relate to it

 

Robert Berkeley  16:29  

that there will Disney for five or six years, I guess? Tell me what happened in the early 2000s. That made you leave? And, you know, were you being an accidental tourist? or What did you have a sense of kind of where you wanted to go?

 

16:42  

There was a tremendous amount of change in my six years on staff and three years prior, on pretty much a full time contract basis with them. I think I needed I needed to get closer to the work, I think, you know, you're managing a very large team and a huge portfolio of brands, I was still fairly young in my career, and I just wanted to get more connected back to the work is they were going through a tonne of organisational change. It was the time Michael Eisner was still at the helm of the company. And I think they've gone through a lot of dramatic transformation. So I had had one too many, I think leadership swings. And I wanted to see, you know, if I could kind of catch my breath a little bit, and they called me back to work on on a contract basis. And so that continued for a couple of years. And then I got another phone call from another Disney colleague connection that led me to my partner have a conversation with my partner for become Brandstratabrand strata. And I think we were like minded. He may...

 

Robert Berkeley  17:49  

So this was this was you launching?

 

 17:52  

Yeah. I mean, I think that the two of us originally started at a local company called grafica. That was trying to build their in house team early on. And then we we ultimately separated and turned the creative component into a company called Brandstratabrand strata.

 

Robert Berkeley  18:09  

Did you have a clear image of a clear vision story of what it was you were trying to do at Brandstratabrand starter when you kicked off in 2003? Yeah,

 

18:16  

Yeah, you know, it's funny, the influencer saw best for me as a young designer, I think was was profound. Because I think for me, I really wanted to capture that I wanted my shot at that, I think were in the magic, that was I would see his consultative ability. So I wanted to get closer to the CEOs and to the leaders of the organisation, give them advice and counsel. And I think just really kind of a hybrid of, of the journey I've taken so far on on my career. And that led us into a relatively new area, or an emerging area of brand in municipalities and cities and doing city branding. So for a while, I mean, brands trying to ended up focusing on cities and ports and university, so a lot of public infrastructure and helping them build their brands like you would do for consumers. But translating it in a way that was helping them with resonance, you know, retention, to build community to do a lot of different things. So I think it was an interesting stretch for me, I think, to go in that direction. But I think it was really interesting. I think that I think my experience with BrandstrataBrent strata really got me to a place where you know, getting in that stakeholder approval and people who are not creative, it's not their profession, right. So you have to take it through and speak in their language and help them understand make those connection points. That's something I still do today. I think stakeholders in very large corporations, you've got to get that stakeholder buy in in order to move things forward and to build brand ambassadors from the inside out.

 

Robert Berkeley  19:52  

Yeah, well, you so you felt you said somewhat constrained there and I wait for this because it's just occurred to me So you decided to spread your wings. And and go to Boeing. Yeah. Did you That was just so just occurred to me I give myself a medal for that. Yeah, for that little segue. But seriously that, how did that happen? What happened to Brandstratabrand Stratta? And and Boeing was a bit of a departure. I mean, it's not exactly Disney.

 

  20:18  

Yeah, I mean, again, I think the opportunity emerged. And again, I have, it's also served me well, I think the Curiosity leads me to some strange places. In this case, it was a call that an opportunity with Boeing came up, they were trying to build their in house agency. And at the time, for me the Brandstratabrand strata, as I mentioned, while we had built a small team, it was I was largely using a network of suppliers and freelancers to execute the work. So it's a it's just a very different experience. But yeah, Boeing was a pretty hard pivot. But the thing that is constant through all these is, I think, the the recognisable brands and they were all at various stages of development for Boeing, what was fascinating to me was, as I've been a student of brands, I continue to be a student of brands, very few brands last, don't last 100 years or more. And they were they were coming up on this 100 year, milestone, and I thought, wow, this would be a really interesting opportunity to help re reinvigorate this brand from the inside out. And Boeing, I think, you know, I think the the challenge within building that in house team, was it, you know, I mean, you're in a, you're in a company of engineers that that is, you know, Disney is a creative culture, building creative content, that's all they do. That's the product that they sell, that's what they do. But in a Boeing, it's an engineering culture. And I think so to build a creative environment and build a creative culture inside of that environment. Was was the number one, the number one challenges that we faced. So I think in the discussion about what they were facing and what they were trying to do, once again, I thought, well, I think I have something to offer and can help this situation. And I have probably something to learn. I've never been an aerospace. It's been a while since I've been back in the corporate world. So this, it proved to be a good fit.

 

Robert Berkeley  22:19  

Yeah, well, sounds I mean, the products are definitely a lot of fun. So big, bigger creative team, though, that you are managing and it was across multiple offices as well. How did that how did you take to that? And what what, what did you need to learn that you hadn't already learned?

 

  22:33  

Well? That's a great question. I think, the remote situation, and I think managing creative people in multiple offices was certainly something I'd never done before. So that wasn't something that I've had to deal with before. So how do you motivate people? How do you help them feel connected? Those are some things that we were really trying to grapple with. And we were going through a tremendous amount of organisational change the they had already, you know, started to really, really define the the team that they needed to build. And, you know, I think just other reductions in force, there was a lot of change management that we had to deal with. So I think that was, you know, dealing with that massive scale of organisational change was a huge part of of that journey with Boeing. Were they helpful and supportive of you? Or did you kind of have to figure it out as

 

Robert Berkeley  23:23  

Were they helpful and supportive of you? Or did you kind of have to figure it out as you as you were going along, and

 

 23:25  

And I saw, there's still a lot, I mean, I had a great, I had an awesome team, we had a leader who had a really strong vision, and, you know, a real champion of the in house model. And certainly Boeing has huge infrastructure in you know, HR and support mechanisms to kind of get through the change management. But yeah, there's a tonne of support. I think that's one of the key benefits inside of a corporate structure, whether it's Disney or Boeing or Humana, I think that's the one of the real benefits is you have a lot of subject matter experts. And that's the key is trying to find them, cultivate them, building those relationships, building the collaborative, you know, relationships in the organisation so that you can get these very large ambitious ideas executed.

 

Robert Berkeley  24:11  

Yes, it's also on the downside, they there is a lot of often I'm not saying here, but often a lot of bureaucracy and a lot of kind of fixed ways, fixed ideas that you had to you have to work through as well to get to your desired objective. Right. Yeah.

 

24:24  

I mean, you know, that's, that's the I think the the breadth, the practical reality of living inside of a corporate culture, they're all similar in nature, they get big, and it's hard to pivot, right? It's hard to turn fast when you're a very large organisation, and it's easy to get very siloed because you're so large, right? You've got a lot of things to do. So I think that's one of the kind of the commonalities between the three experiences is, you know, looking at those silos, how do you break them down, beyond structure because structure while it's you know, can be useful in Change Management and building organisational culture can also be disruptive and destructive. And I think that that is something that I'm always mindful of and sort of learning from those experiences to say, How fast do you make the change? And how do you get people through the changes, huge part of leading an in house team, because there's always going to be large sweeping changes in a very large company, and, and helping people understand that context and where it fits and how they can how and why they can support it.

 

Robert Berkeley  25:31  

Yeah, management moves in mysterious ways in cooperation sometimes. And it's, it's hard to, it's hard to understand, going back to what we said earlier, if you're, if you're not there, and having conversations with them all the time, it's hard to understand why they make the decisions they do. But given all of that, you clearly had a successful time at Boeing, you say you helped create the in house agency, but you also manage to change their development processes along the way, as well

 

 25:56  

as the development process. Tell me more about that. I'm not sure what that means,

 

Robert Berkeley  26:00  

in terms of their design thinking, methodologies, agile methodologies, that kind of thing. Where

 

 26:05  

Yeah, I mean, design thinking, we all got certified. But by this time, we've had a few creative directors added to our roster. That was one thing that was a big change, was building a formal creative structure we had this was you making the patent for this and the template and saying, this is how it's going to have to be, Ah, well, I hate to sit take sole credit for anything, or you always work as part of a team.

 

Robert Berkeley  26:29  

But But yes,

 

 26:30  

well, my role, my focus was creative, like building the creative team, elevating the creative finding the individuals, and one of the individuals that we had on the team had started to explore design thinking. And we'd found it to be successful in some projects that were particularly challenging with some particularly challenging stakeholders in bringing them together quicker, getting everyone aligned and coming out of that experience with better creative outcomes, and just a better overall creative experience for all involved. So that's that learning led us to say, Okay, let's, let's train everyone in this methodology. And let's adopt this methodology formally, as we go through these project development cycles to get the stakeholder engagement sooner so that we can reduce the iterations on the back end. And I think that, you know, adopting that methodology, but

 

Robert Berkeley  27:24  

So there was an objective, then it was this iterations on the back end, but that was the that was the kind of problem that you were trying to solve.

  27:30  

Yeah, I mean, you can do a lot of churn on the in house team. I mean, people look at you like you're free. It's, and I like to say, we're not free, we are very expensive line item on in a corporate budget. So we have to be mindful of the value that we provide. So I think it's important to continually try to scrutinise What are you working on? is high value, is that the right thing? I think that's one of the hardest things inside the organisation. It's not the work work volume. I mean, I've been on the opposite end of that, where you know, I'm a consultant or a freelancer, and the huge swings in the volume of work can be your problem. That's not the problem in house, there's a steady stream of work all the time. So, you know, I think it's really just kind of taking a pause, pulling up and taking a look and saying, okay, it's just the right thing that we should be working on right now. It's just the highest priority going to add value to what the company's priorities are, and how do we aid in that effort?

 

Robert Berkeley  28:28  

And is it important to show the company what you're doing and show the value all the time? Yeah, I

 

 28:34  

Yeah, I mean, I don't think I've found the secret formula for that. Yeah. But I think exposure and visibility to what the team is doing is, is critical. And I think helping them understand the difference between someone who can just be a pair of hands and operate a computer and someone who's really going to add value to the conversation. They're going to really know the business. I think the business and brand acumen is what we is the true value that we provide as an in house team.

 

Robert Berkeley  29:02  

Absolutely. But of course, I I certainly speaking from experience, where I'm seeing a lot of changes taking place with some in house agencies and those that seem to be writing out the changes or those who have ensured that management see the value of what they're doing financial value for more than anything. Yes. on a regular basis. Well, that was a big job. You had a Boeing and you were there to tilled, as you said, just a couple of years ago. What inspired the change and you're in you're in California, that you're in LA there.

 

  29:29  

Yeah. I mean, that was great. I was in Huntington Beach, I was living in Huntington Beach, in Southern California could not cannot have been better. But he made out that this one was a cold call from a recruiter. And, you know, I think that, you know, for again, that curiosity is always my persistent friend. And so, you know, I took the call and I have a lovely conversation with this recruiter. And, you know, he said, I'm gonna call you back and we'll want to see if he can talk to our SVP Who's now our CMOcmo? And she was just lovely. It was just, you know, it just sometimes I think you just know through the conversation that this is something that is going to be a good fit. And it proved to be that so here I am.

 

Robert Berkeley  30:11  

So it seems that from what you told me earlier that the Humana job, Humana Humana job was really kind of almost like everything you've been doing up to that point point to this?

 

 30:24  

Yeah, yeah, I can't even begin to say I've used every tool in my arsenal here at this at this job. It came out, I think, I think first, you know, one of the stark differences between Boeing and Humana was Humanakidnapped wasis largely organisation built around the communications team. And what one of the things that was hugely appealing to me was really getting back to my Disney roots, which was working with the marketing team. And really, you know, because I think marketing inherently understands the value of creative now you just have to kind of talk through the value of creative in, in house, and I think working a model, I think, you know, my first job really coming in was, when I spoke with Jennifer, our cmo, she was like, I think we have a great team. Let's see what we can do with it next. And I think it was really just saying, look, there's a good foundation here, I think we've got some good talent. They're relatively young in their career. And you know, what direction and how much can we do? How much can we offset our reliance on external agencies? And, you know, how can we build the brand muscle on the inside? And it's they've largely meetingsMateen has been really incredible. And I think that, you know, they've really gravitated towards, you know, being at the centre of this agency ecosystem, and working collaboratively to build the brand

 

Robert Berkeley  31:45  

Aand collaboratively with with internal stakeholders, but also external agencies. Yeah, yeah.

 

31:49  

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that's, that's been a journey, it continues to be a journey, we had a pretty hefty roster of agencies. Certainly, we have an agency of record in mullenlowe. Now, but we have, I think, worked out a pretty, you know, I don't know if it's a replicatable model. But I think the the intention is that there are I think there's going to need to be an ecosystem. I mean, Disney use an ecosystem of agencies as well, I think that there's a time and a place, I think, for all the skill sets. And as I said, there's a there's a never ending stream of work. So it's really just more I think, the bigger battle, the fight is not who does the work, but it is, you know, making sure that the work looks like it came from the same place that it speaks from the same brand voice and delivers the same kind of brand

 

Robert Berkeley  32:37  

brand. And That's your responsibility. Would you say that? Yeah,

 

32:40  

I mean, I think that's, you know, collaboratively. I mean, yeah, it's the brand governance side of it is, is the brand management side of what I do my delivered through my team. So I've structured my team around the business. And we've got like 18 different lines of business that we support. And their job is to get smart about the business and the brand translation for that business. And that model has worked pretty well, I think, for us. And with each of those lines of businesses, each of them also has an agency that they like to work with, based on the audience they're talking to, or based on the delivery mechanism, the channels that they're trying to activate. So again, tapping into subject matter expertise, whether it's inside or outside, really doesn't matter to me, I take an agency agnostic approach. I happen to run the in house agency here at Humana. But the agency agnostic view, I think is the only way you can take it because I think you've really got to put the brand at the centre and not who's you know, the battle between who's doing the work?

 

Robert Berkeley  33:39  

Yeah. So often in corporates, of course, the departmental leaders think that the company revolves around them, I guess. And what you're trying to do is say, no, it revolves around the brand. We're all there in the service of the brand and trying to help. And so understanding your role to play in that your unique role to play seems to be quite straightforward to you, in terms of the fact that it revolves around governance.

 

 34:00  

Yeah, I mean, I think I, my team would probably tell you the first, first or second month I was there, I put up two words on the screen was brand expression and brand management. And that was a fairly new concept, the brand expression they got, right, we've been doing that pretty much our whole careers we do we execute creative, but the brand management side, I think took a lot of different flavours, even the even over the course of just the two and a half years that I've been here, because I think the strength of the team and their focus on brand, I think has grown and gotten a lot stronger over the last couple years. So I think that you know, it took a little bit of time, I think to help them understand. Yes, it's in building brand standards. But for me, I have always looked at brand standards as the outcome, not the roadmap. And that's probably a different philosophy from I know it is from a lot of different my branding colleagues like you know, in the early days of Saul Bass, it was like he creates a guide and everybody follows the guide. Do it in reverse. And that was a byproduct of what I learned at Disney, even though they you know, they created their style guides, but they created their style guides, mostly is inspiration. So somewhere between that inspiration and the instruction is, to me the best is when you bring those two things together. And I think teaching the team like what does that mean? Where is it doesn't need to be prescriptive? And where does it need to be flexible? Those are the things that I think only happened through conversation, particularly on the flexible side, pretty easy to put the rigid rules out there. But inevitably, people will deviate, because the rules don't apply to them. So I think it's better to encourage flexibility is fascinating. So brand guidelines are not walls, that they're, they're actually a kind of springboard a starting point

 

Robert Berkeley  35:48  

I think it'sitis fascinating. So brand guidelines are not walls, that they're, they're actually a kind of springboard a starting point for creative thinking to be applied is that well, yeah, I mean, I

 

  35:52  

yeah, I mean, I think I would say there's a spec, I define it as a spectrum between fixed and flexible. And on the fixed side, of course, you have your colour, you have your logo, you have your trademark assets, those should be rigidly controlled. And I think that those are the things that those are the traditional things that people understand. But when you get into the expression side of it, again, it should be audience based. And I think that having a corporate stamp on everything, or having the corporation when you're trying to engage in a human conversation, humans are emotional. So I think the expressive range of the brand is really important.

 

Robert Berkeley  36:25  

I think that's interesting, because I think now you're mentioning it, I can think of brands, I won't mention them, but I can think of brands where they they although they deal with me as a consumer, you can sense that their communications are a little rigid and a little bit more about the brand guidelines and about how the message they're trying to get across to me, whether that's whether that's you know, kind of any paper documentation I get or the experience on the website and that kind of thing. I see what you're trying to manage for sure. I'll tell you that much harder. Oh, yeah. Well, I'm sure I mean, it's you're much more into herding cats if you're if you're going to allow this to happen. Yeah. So we're herding cats in in Kentucky or you're living there I guess. So you moved over there.

 

 37:04  

Yeah, I like to see I'm bicoastalby Coastal here. I spend my time here and lowball get a home loan a home in Huntington Beach still. So I've got the best of both worlds.

 

Robert Berkeley  37:13  

Yeah, absolutely. And when you when you're not Aa VP now, aren't you? there at Humana when you're when you're not Aa VP? What do you do?

 

37:21  

Yeah, now being creative. Being creative. I must confess that my, you know, my hidden passion now is Animal Crossing on the Nintendo Switch. I think I've fallen victim to the

 

Robert Berkeley  37:33  

when I say Animal Crossing, I had ideas of sort of strange engineering going on experimental breeding. But you know, this is a game. It's a

 

 37:40  

It's a game. And I think it taps into my passion for building the Lego bricks meets my Ggingerbread architect roots. So yeah, I think the creativity, it's it's been a way to connect with family through the pandemic.

 

Robert Berkeley  37:54  

Absolutely. Yeah. Well, hopefully we're on the, on the back slope of the pandemic. Now, it's been quite a journey for everybody. And well not least for you, because, well, I guess no, you started early 2019. So you had a year under your belt before before it all stroke, right.

 

38:08  

Yeah. But I think that one of the most profound things is the transition my team had to make. I mean, I moved to Louisville, because my team was 100%, co-locatedco located in in mobile, and that we had to make that you know, rapid shift like everyone else to figure out how we were going to collaborate and be creative with a team that that had never done that before. So I give them a huge amount of credit for their resiliency and their adaptability. And they were able to figure out great ways to collaborate and be creative, remotely

 

Robert Berkeley  38:39  

his to getting the best of all worlds as we move forward. You know, we've all learned to work from home and seeing the benefits of that, but I know people are busting a nut to get back into being with each other as well. So yeah, for sure. Are you your reader, Laurie? Or do you listen to music?

 

  38:53  

I listen to music. I'm pretty much an avid concert junkie. I've been missed up the most I think from pandemic.Yeah,

 

Robert Berkeley  39:00  

Yeah, I totally agree with you. Do you like to go and see,

 

 39:02  

I one of my favourites is Ppink. That's what probably one of my all time favourites.

 

Robert Berkeley  39:07  

Right, right. So okay. All right. So that's kind of edgy, edgy. It's rock. Nice rock. Okay, that's okay. I accept that. That's good. All right. Well, Laurie, before we sign off, I know a lot of people because I know from experience will be interested to learn more maybe connect with you. Is LinkedIn the best place for them? Yeah,

 

 39:27  

that's a great way for me to connect. I'm always happy to to connect with youbooks. thereThey're

 

Robert Berkeley  39:34  

Alright all right. And it's always interesting to hear how someone who started out as a creative illustrator ends up managing these monumental teams for world famous brands. It's a it's a fantastic journey. Laurie, I really appreciate you sharing that with this. Thanks. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. It's been great to connect Robert. Also, I must thank you the dear listener for joining us today. Laurie seemed to me to be a bit of a disrupter, but one that can do disruption in a diplomatic and constructive way. Her key attributes seem to be curiosity which she herself mentioned several times. Now, she certainly seems to have found her home at Humana. And I look forward to seeing her team's good work well into the future. Emily foster of our esteemed partners IHAFI have and my producer Amy MacNamara have my undying gratitude for making these podcasts happen. Also praying a chapter at EKCS for handling the podcast editing so patiently and magnificently. If you're new to Iinside Jjobs, then a very warm welcome to you. If you visit our website at IJAj podcast.com you'll find more great interviews in our ever growing back catalogue of episodes. TillUntil next time,